In the caro variation of the ponziani after 7 Qf3 Bd6 black is better imo , despite being a pawn down , he has enough for it . My database shows that from this position black is scoring 64.3% to white's 21.4 % ! Black is also doing better after 7... Nf6 with 46% to white's 37 % . So , black has a choice of 2 moves at move 7 that favor black in actual tournament practice .
Ponziani opening traps
Sort:
Reb wrote:
In the caro variation of the ponziani after 7 Qf3 Bd6 black is better imo , despite being a pawn down , he has enough for it . My database shows that from this position black is scoring 64.3% to white's 21.4 % ! Black is also doing better after 7... Nf6 with 46% to white's 37 % . So , black has a choice of 2 moves at move 7 that favor black in actual tournament practice .
I do not care what your data base says. It is very likely it does not show the correct plans for White. There are a lot of players who play the Ponziani who are not up on theory.
What data base are you using? And what follow ups does that data base give after 7. Qf3 Bd6 and 7. Qf3 Nf6?
I still maintain very strongly that White is better after 7. Qf3
Kaufman who wrote The Kaufman Repertoire for Black and White used to advocate the line for Black after 7. Qf3. Now he stated he was wrong [as Ponziani theory evolved]
another 15 minute per side game...
TrumanB wrote:
It's a bit surprising for me because according to your experience someone may conclude that Ponz is almost always giving advantage to white. That would make him one of the best openings. But on the other hand, GMs play it rarely.
By the way, I like Ponziani.
The fun about Ponziani is that unless black knows a good in-depth theory (upto 6 moves for each variation), he gets hurt very easily. Black must play the perfect move to counter white and that move is hard to locate if you haven't already gone through all the variations (as black) in detail. White on the other hand, gets a full throttle nitro burst from the start and goes raging all over the board, putting a lot of pressure, testing black's nerves and endurance.
IMO if white can't get a superiority in material or position till move 10, Ponziani starts showing it's long term side-effects. White's development is hampered and black is able to get the initiative.
However ... I have rarely played a Ponziani game (as white) where I haven't got a good positional or material advantage by move 10.
On a slightly different [but related subject] in most games of chess, one side or another has a decisive advantage by the 12th move.
another 15 minute game... [15 minutes to finish game played on another site]
Ponz, your 15 min games must be against weak players ? I surely dont believe they are against masters .... I give you practical results/facts from a database of games and you retort with subjective opinions that are terribly tainted by your own fondness of the opening and your extreme arrogance .... do you never tire of your boasting ?
I have played the ponziani myself and the only reason I had any success with it is that my opponents had no idea how to play it since they likely never faced it . I played it often for about a year ... word got out and my opponents started preparing for it and suddenly my success declined greatly so I went back to the Spanish . The Ponziani is good for surprise value and once that is lost its simply an inferior white opening for OTB play and thats why NO GM plays it regularly OTB . By " inferior " I mean that several other openings do better for white after 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 than the Ponziani . This is easily verified by databases of tournament practice .
Reb, you are offensive. I asked you a couple of questions from your last post and you have refused to answer. Instead you come up with this.
I do not really care that you do not know how to play the Ponziani very well.
In my 15 minute games the players range from class A to master.
I am no whiz at fast chess. [15 minutes per side, to me is fast chess]
However, many players really like these games as they are good examples of how to play the Ponziani in real life situations.
If you do not like it, GFAK!!!
With some of the obvious blunders in these games I doubt they are against masters . In any event you shouldnt litter a chess discussion thread with non stop games of yours .... such games belong in the games showcase thread . Your boasting/arrogance grows old after a few threads of it . I know you are a chess legend in your own mind .... so give it a rest ...
another 15 minute per side game.
Wow ponz ... all these 15 min games and noone even makes it to move 20 !? And you want us to believe all your opponents are from A class to master ?!
Reb, I do not care what you believe, GFAK!!
another 15 minute game.
Reb read the title of this topic/forum. It is "Ponziani opening traps"
ponz111 wrote:
Reb read the title of this topic/forum. It is "Ponziani opening traps"
I understand that , I just find it hard to believe that players from A class to master fall for said traps . Maybe B class and below .... sure . 
Reb, I do not care what you find hard to believe.
Yep. The Ponz is something else for wins that seem to come out of nowhere when Black is unprepared.
Here's the Youtube which persuaded me to take the Ponz out for a spin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOZLHeKWhTQ
The Ponziani is the main aggressive/surprise opening I used as White when I climbed from 1600 USCF to eventually 2130 over about three years. My coach GM Alex Wojtkiewicz (R.I.P.) suggested it as an easy way to trip up class players who likely don't have time to study this somewhat obscure opening and figure they'll just play it over the board if they encounter it. Unfortunately for them, the "natural" moves are the wrong ones and they can easily fall into some traps. This opening is also good for online blitz and bullet games for the same reason.
He had me at "Wojo."
pretty much