Positional Opening for Black against e4?

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KevinSmithIdiot

If you're going to learn only the Caro or the French you still need to/absolutely must gain some level of familiarity with the other one--not be an expert, but be aware of some key ideas. The structures frequently shift from one to the other and there are many ideas in common (e.g., breaks with ...c5, sometimes breaks with ...f6, White playing Qg4, the placement of Black's light-squared Bishop, dealing with the pressure created by White's pawn on e5.)

Where can you get some of those key ideas in a relatively abbreviated form? I'd recommend GM Mauricio Flores Rios book Chess Structures: A GM Guide. He looks at many structures. But he does compare and contrast the C.K. and French structures. And for each he provides some thematic ideas for a variety of specific structures within each opening. I think it may even be available on Chessable now, which makes it easier to use in some ways. I have so many notes and highlighted points in the book that I don't think I'll get the online course.

If you want to learn the French, after you get the basics out of the way then I highly recommend IM John Watson's books on the topic. Again, that's after you become expert in the opening. John has been playing the opening since the 1960s and I found his latest on the French insightful, but VERY heavy. My takeaway was it pitched to the master and above level who already specialized in the opening. 

MaetsNori
ItsTwoDuece wrote:

If you don't like the French, the Caro is an alternative. The difference between the two is that in the Caro-Kann you give up a tempo (since you're playing c6 and then c5 instead of just c5 in one move) in order to get the light squared bishop out instead of trapping it behind e6 like in the French. Personally I would prefer the French of the two.

Caro players aren't obligated to play c6-c5 in the Advance.

I find that a lot of a French players think that the Caro-Kann still has the same positional goals as the French, just with a differently placed bishop. But that isn't always the case.

Sometimes the positional goals overlap. Other times, they are quite different. A lot depends on the player and their choice of lines.

For example, this is one of the main lines against the Advance:

We can see that it varies quite a bit from the usual French Advance.

Here, Black doesn't play for c6-c5. Instead, Black is looking to attack on the kingside, in opposite-color-castling fashion (often by prying open a file with f7-f6).

ItsTwoDuece
IronSteam1 wrote:

Caro players aren't obligated to play c6-c5 in the Advance.

I find that a lot of a French players think that the Caro-Kann still has the same positional goals as the French, just with a differently placed bishop. But that isn't always the case.

My point was to give the simplest and quickest explanation of the main theoretical idea of the opening, which is easiest to do through comparing it to the French. I recognize these different ideas, but I think the way I described it was reasonable for the intent I had.

DanmaCoolio

i think you go pirc defense fr

gik-tally

play the french, and decline both the monte carlo as well as alapin diemer gambits and I will despise you with every fiber of my being, ESPECIALLY if you're also a 1.d4 player

jmpchess12

Caro is probably a good choice. White can play like an attacking maniac against just about anything, but with the caro you  will often get a strategic battle in the advanced or carlsbad structures. 

darkunorthodox88

play the nimzowitsch defense, sound and always asymmetrical, and as an added bonus you can transpose to a king pawn game if you want a good half of the time while avoiding all the 2nd move sidelines by white.

HarryMaguire-05

if I were to study a sicillian which would be the best line to cover

Cobra2721

Dragon

WCPetrosian

If you want a second tier defense that not everyone and their uncles are playing then the Hanham Philidor might suit. I'm using The Modernized Philidor Defense repertoire book that came out in 2021. Black responds to 1 e4 with 1...d6 and then heads for a Philidor setup. https://britishchessnews.com/2021/11/10/the-modernized-philidor-defense/

jmpchess12

I always forget about the Philidor, but aside from black misplays it's hard for white to force the issue and instead they must patiently improve. 

MisterOakwood

French defence has really long term positional idéas. But you have to be willing to be under a big kingside attack which many people find scary. 

sndeww

sicilian kalashnikov

options for both strategic and dynamic play

HarryMaguire-05

hmm OK

Bobery1

What id do is mirror e4 and protect with knights. Use bishop to trade for a knight on their kings side. This makes it so that when they castle, a lane is exposed and checkmate can be done with only 2 pieces. e5 is a good start for white but can lead to problems if u use it as a counter for e4. 

HarryMaguire-05
Bobery1 a écrit :

What id do is mirror e4 and protect with knights. Use bishop to trade for a knight on their kings side. This makes it so that when they castle, a lane is exposed and checkmate can be done with only 2 pieces. e5 is a good start for white but can lead to problems if u use it as a counter for e4. 

only problem with that is when you take the knight, the queen takes. 

DanmaCoolio

nah but if the queen takes the he takes with the pawn and then the bishop is hanging

Ritesh_ratn

Whoever is reading this please consider sending me a friend request. I just love to connect with more and more chess lovers across the globe which really helps me to better understand this game. 

Bobery1
ricechessmaster1 wrote:
Bobery1 a écrit :

What id do is mirror e4 and protect with knights. Use bishop to trade for a knight on their kings side. This makes it so that when they castle, a lane is exposed and checkmate can be done with only 2 pieces. e5 is a good start for white but can lead to problems if u use it as a counter for e4. 

only problem with that is when you take the knight, the queen takes. 

You can protect with a bishop so they have to use a pawn rather than a valuable piece such as the queen. 

zone_chess

Play the Modern Defense, 2... g6 3...Bg7 and you can develop with the Sicilian pawn 4...c5 to create the Pterodactyl Defense. Because we are delaying attacks this becomes highly positional.
The Sicilian is great too and can be tremendously positional if you go for a Sveshnikov, Kalashnikov, Paulsen, or Kan, for example. Other variations tend to get tense soon.