QDG exchange as black

What are blacks and whites plans in the QGD exchange?, also if i havnt played nf6 yet, do i have extra options? :


so, the position i reach looks a bit different than your average QGD ex. since nf6 is ommitted and I have c6 instead.

You probably have xtra options here. I would maybe consider Bd6+Ne7+Bf5 type of setup - of course depending on what white does.

For the typical plans I recommend consulting a book, an educational video or whatever. This is really too vast topic to explain in a forum post.

im aware of that. its not what I asked, though i sorted out my problem a few weeks back.

I didnt say it was, and its somewhat irrelevant. Do your opponents always play the best theoretical continuation?

It is irrelevant because its off topic.

Personally I'd rather choose 4... exd5 than cxd5 in this particular position.

4... cxd5 may not be the best version of the Exchange Slav as black has commited to early e6 meaning his bishop remains hemmed in whereas white may freely place his bishop outside the pawn chain. This way black would have less options than in normal Exchange Slav whereas after 4... exd5 he has more options than in typical Exchange QGD.

Grizzly bears are brown.  This is not irrelevant even though it has nothing to do with the question, because it's demonstrably true, and if you are ever in grizzly territory, grizzlies can be very dangerous.

5. Qc2 is the only move which prevents the simple Bf5. You can meet 5. Qc2 with 5.Be7 forcing White to chose between 6. Nf3 Nf6 7. Bg5 g6 followed by Bf5  and even though Black cannot castle this is supose to be equal, and 6. Bf4, which I have never actual seen before, but Geller reached this position a few times and played 6...g6 whatever its merits, 7. e3 Bf5 8. Qd2 Nd7 9. f3 g5 10. Bg3 with either 10...Bg6 T. Paehtz-Geller, Dortmund B-Group 1991 or 10...h5 Yakovich-Geller, Russian Champinship 1995, this is not typical for the exhange variation.

You can actually acheive a finachetto with opposit side castleing with 5 Qc2 g6 6. Bf4 Bf5 7. Qd2 Nf6 8. f3 Bg7 9. g4 Be6 10. O-O-O which is also rather atypical. (Sort of opposit side castleing.)

There is also 5. Bd6 with the plan mentioned by Shakaali

So, yes you have extra options by delaying Nf6. I don't know if they are any good, just that you have them. If you utalize them, I don't know how useful you will find studying the minority attack. White does not play for b5 in these positions while Black exchanges a few pieces and tries for counterplay on the e file and kingside. f3 and e4 is a typical plan you should be aware of. I don't really see e4 with an isolated queen's pawn being useful.

Read the Title, nitwit!  Granted, the D and G are inverted (QGD), but still, do you not see the word "EXCHANGE"?  HELLO???  This is NOT about what White "Should play" or what "Most" Whites do play, it's about what to do when White plays the Exchange.  I refuse to give advice on how to continue an inferior line, but what to do AGAINST an inferior line deserves to be answered!  The person that posted the OP isn't the moron that played 4.cxd5.  He's the OPPONENT of the moron!

OK, enough venting.  In the Exchange QGD, since you haven't played Nf6 yet, White will probably have to play something like Nf3 unless he wants to go into the Bf4 lines.  This does eliminate the lines where White plays Nge2, and makes it less that you ened to know.  White can also play 5.Qc2, as mentioned prior.  If you play 5...Nf6, and he responds with 6.Bg5, you are back in the main lines.  The idea is that, assuming Nf3 has been played, eliminating the central attack, White sees that your c-pawn is busy holding your pawn chain together.  If you advance it to c5, you isolate d5, and even weaken b7.  Therefore, it's stuck on c6.  White sees this, and executes what is called a Minority Attack, where he uses 2 pawns to attack your 3.  The b-pawn will go to b5, and again, Black doesn't want to take and weaken d5 and b7, so he sits, and allows White to take, and Black takes back with the pawn, creating a backwards c-pawn.

Meanwhile, Black is using the semi-open e-file to attack down.  His own minority attack with the f-pawn is too slow.  Therefore, his goal is to exchange a couple of minor pieces to ease up the burden of the space disadvantage.

This structure with WPs on a2, b2, d4, e3, f2, g2, h2 and Black pawns on a7, b7, c6, d5, f7, g7, h7 is called the "Carlsbad Pawn Structure" because it occurred extremely often in Carlsbad 1924.  As a general rule of thumb, White wants to trade his LSB for a Black Knight, so moves like ...Ne4 are not automatic, especially if it allows Bxe4!.  With the d5 pawn stuck on a light square, and the backwards pawn behind it on c6 also being light, The following piece configurations are IDEAL for White (White's pieces are always listed first):

   QRRN vs QRRB(Light Squared) OR QRRNN vs QRRNB(Light Squared)

While the following configurations are IDEAL for Black

   QRRN vs QRRN OR QRRNN vs QRRNN

As for the heavy pieces, a Black Rook will usually reside on e8, sometimes lifted to e6 to defend c6 and also threaten Rf6/Rg6/Rh6 attacking the White King.  The other rook usually guards c6, and the Queen tries to find a square that combines the defense of c6 and the attack on the Kingside.  The knight is typically free to roam.  A Bishop stuck on d7 is often a bad thing.  Sometimes, Black can give up the pawn if he is getting a quick enough attack on the White King, and has accounted for the back rank issues by giving his King a flight square (like g7 or h7).  White will line up his heavy pieces via Rb1, Rc1, and Qc2.

Normally it is said that a single weakness is defendable, 2 weaknesses aren't.  That's how pieces get overworked.  So if you can hold your weakness to the c-pawn, you should be OK.  If White can win the c-pawn without allowing compensation for Black, it's usually a win for White.

Early moves after your setup might include 5.Qc2 Nf6 6.Bg5 Be7 7.Nf3 O-O 8.e3 intending 9.Bd3, 10.O-O, 11.Rab1, and 12.b4.

Let me know if you have any questions.  I used to play the Exchange QGD as White in the past, but not against this setup.  More typical for me was 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5.

Please FIX the title of this thread, numbnuts.

A) White wants to "minority attack" Black's queenside. He will try this via a3,b4 and b5 in an attempt to break up your queenside pawns and pick them off in isolaton. Black has different ways in combating this plan such as ...a5 to slow b4 down or ...a6 to slow b5 down, ...b5 to stop everything at the cost of a weak c6 pawn or he can combine the ...a6 plan with the idea of playing ...c5. 

B) White can also play for the e4 break in the center with Nge2 f3 and soon e4. White hopes to get an e4+d4 pawn center.

C) Black usually finds play on the kingside.

Watch games with the move order 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cd cd 5.Bg5 so you don't get confused...

This. With the addition that plans A and B are mutually exclusive, and plan B is sometimes coupled to castling queenside if I remember well.

And even if there are move order tricks, one needs to know how to play the minority attack before going for a QGD, I do not think there are reasonable ways to avoid it.

There is a book on the Triangle System that a friend of mine who is a coach in Portland, Oregon reads and uses to get away from a lot of lines as Black in the QGD Exchange Variations, some with some highly tactical games while others are very positional. Each to their own really.

On cxd5 I would play exd5 freeing the LSB with decent chances. As White, not saure

Thanks everyone, ThrillerFans was an especially good read.

You resurrected a dead thread to complain that ThrillerFan was rude? You were the one that posted off topic then accused everyone else of not being able to read.