QGA line bad for black, but how to win?
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ajian
Jan 5, 2013
0
#1
Don't ask me... can somebody this guy out?
My line with engine assist. I already posted it but I lost it so Im fed up with it sorry.
[ECO "D24"]
[Opening "QGA: Bogolyubov variation"]
1. d4 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 a6 5. e4 b5 6. e5 Nd5 7. a4 Nxc3 8. bxc3
Bb7 9. e6 fxe6 10. Ng5 Qd7 11. Be2 {One engine suggestion, but I have my
doubts.} ({Another idea I prefer.} 11. Bf4 Nc6 ({Bad is} 11... g6 12. Be5) 12.
Be2 e5 13. dxe5 ({Interesting, but possibly useless violence is also} 13. Bg4)
13... Qxd1+ 14. Rxd1 Nd8 15. Bg4 {White looks far more active, but the engine
rules it's about equal.} 15... e6 16. Nxe6 Nxe6 17. Bxe6 Bc6 {Is a possible line
with even material.}) 11... Bxg2 12. Bf3 Bxf3 13. Qxf3 Qd5 14. axb5 g6 15. Qf7+
Kd7 16. O-O Qf5 {Black is getting rid of the weak e-pawn.} 17. Re1 Bh6 18. Qxe6+
Qxe6 19. Nxe6 Bxc1 20. Nc5+ Kc8 21. Rexc1 a5 22. Re1 {White is more active and I
think he may win back a pawn.} *
Black is drawing this line without much trouble in top centaur chess. OTB though it's rather tough to defend, most people prefer 9...f6.
pfren schreef:
Black is drawing this line without much trouble in top centaur chess. OTB though it's rather tough to defend, most people prefer 9...f6.
Honestly, I tried to play g6, Bd5 and Bg7 in the Be2 line, not wanting to waste time with the g2 pawn. Then after Bg4 and Qe2 it looked pretty awful for black. Anyway that would have made the post way too long and I already misposted the first time.
against...Bb7 I play Ba3 and use my kingside initiative, which comes in faster than his Qside initiative because of the pawn sac
Generally, Black seems not having such a difficult life, so I wouldn't say it's "bad" for Black.
ajian schreef:
against...Bb7 I play Ba3 and use my kingside initiative, which comes in faster than his Qside initiative because of the pawn sac
You mean 11.Ba3? I don't know if it matters much, since there's no huge advantage in the position unless black slips up.
Hmm - (ignoring IM pfren´s refutation of your statement for the moment) - if you consider the line bad, why do you want to play it?
melvinbluestone schreef:
If black wants to draw this line, he can just go with 7...e6. After 8.axb5 Bb4 or Nb6, it's hard to see how white makes progress. Why focus on the 7...Nxc3 line when considering recommendations for white, as it's probably harder for white to 'win' against the 7...e6 line. The OP did ask "how to win" against the QGA.......
I can only assume this appeared on the board somehow and it didn't go anywhere. Otherwise it may not be overly productive to study such a marginal line, unless you're very well prepared for literally everything.
In history people trashed the QGA. When the main lines are played it isn't so easy to make play with white at all. Last thing I heard is it was a sound opening.
basilicone wrote:
Hmm - (ignoring IM pfren´s refutation of your statement for the moment) - if you consider the line bad, why do you want to play it
I like it for white, and all the opening books say it gives white a very dangerous attack.
Dutchday wrote:
ajian schreef:
against...Bb7 I play Ba3 and use my kingside initiative, which comes in faster than his Qside initiative because of the pawn sac
You mean 11.Ba3? I don't know if it matters much, since there's no huge advantage in the position unless black slips up.
You can't get a big advantage in any respectable opening.
ajian wrote:
Dutchday wrote:
ajian schreef:
against...Bb7 I play Ba3 and use my kingside initiative, which comes in faster than his Qside initiative because of the pawn sac
You mean 11.Ba3? I don't know if it matters much, since there's no huge advantage in the position unless black slips up.
You can't get a big advantage in any respectable opening.
Everything is relative.
Instead of Qd7...Qd5 ?
ajian schreef:
Dutchday wrote:
ajian schreef:
against...Bb7 I play Ba3 and use my kingside initiative, which comes in faster than his Qside initiative because of the pawn sac
You mean 11.Ba3? I don't know if it matters much, since there's no huge advantage in the position unless black slips up.
You can't get a big advantage in any respectable opening.
That seems a little contradicting. You insisted the line was bad, but did not know why. Then you go on to claim there is a dangerous attack in it and that you even have books on it! Why don't you show us one of the lines to discuss? Would be more productive.
One post later you expect ''no big advantage.''
Ajian, that is a totally different line and not your initial question. Understand my confusion.
Black doesn't have to play 9...e6, there are other moves like 9...Bd5.
Looking at the 9...e6 line for a moment, there might be 11...Be4 12.Rb2 c6, with a solid wall. My engine also likes 12...Qd5 but I don't know.
Your line with g6-h6-Kg8 looks a little awkward for black. Costs time.
Dutchday wrote:
Ajian, that is a totally different line and not your initial question. Understand my confusion.
Black doesn't have to play 9...e6, there are other moves like 9...Bd5.
Looking at the 9...e6 line for a moment, there might be 11...Be4 12.Rb2 c6, with a solid wall. My engine also likes 12...Qd5 but I don't know.
Your line with g6-h6-Kg8 looks a little awkward for black. Costs time.
I know, but then the kingside would be blasted open with f4-f5. By the way, this is definetely not a refuatation of the QGA. But I don't think that 4.Nc3 denies white an opening advantage