Queen's Gambit prefered choice after...

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Avatar of Daybreak57

d4 d5 c4 dxc4

 

I see there are two popular moves after this sequence.  There is Nc3 or e4.  Which is better?  I remember running into a guy a while back who played Nc3 when I barely learned how to play the queens gambit accepted and was still learning book moves and didn't care to deveate from them myself, however, a lot of people like to play this way.  I don't know if anyone knows this but a popular guy that goes by the name of Hutch plays this way as well.  I would like to know if anyone knows if there are any ramifications from defering from the book move e4 to Nc3?  I say "the book move" because in my book by Lars Schandorff, he recommends playing e4 in this variation, and doesn't even mention Nc3.  

 

My thoughts are to avoid the main line of the queen's gambit accepted, but then why play the kings gambit accepted, and is there a reason why Lars Schandorff doesn't even mention Nc3 in his book, Playing 1.d4 The Queen's Gambit.  I know I know it's a grand master book but don't worry I invested in a pair of GM glasses to deciper the chess hieroglyphs!  However, I haven't used them in some time, and after coming back to the book I seem to have misplaced them.  So I come here, asking a way.

 

Is there anything wrong with Nc3?  Or is e4 simply a better move?  I asked a guy who played this way why he chose Nc3 instead of e4 and he said simply he likes to avoid book openings.  So he could have been totally oblivious to the Queens gambit accepted and just played a natural move that he felt was correct.  Or maybe most people don't even know that they are avoiding the main line Queens Gambit accepted by playing Nc3 and just play it because they think it's good development?  

 

So I ask, what do you play as white in response to dxc4?  Do you play Nc3, or e4, or something else?  And why?  I gather Hutch playes Nc3 to avoid the main line of the QGA as it is a very dynamic line and he probably isn't good enough to navagate those waters so he chose Nc3 instead to get rid of those nasty loses, but I think one should learn the main line first so I play e4 and take the losses with dignity knowing that I am learning how to play chess the way it was recommended to me by a GM.

 

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Avatar of TwoMove

Like many opening threads, groundhog day. 2Nc3 isn't a particularly good move. Can try a6 and then b5, to exploit nc3 too early. Alternatively equalise easily with e5.  1.d4 d5 2c4 pxp 3Nf3 Nf6 4Nc3 is a better try for white. Nf3 has helped prevent e5.

Avatar of VLaurenT

The two main options are 3.e4 and 3.Nf3, with 3.e3 being a refinement of 3.Nf3, but often leads to the same positions.

Avatar of Rogue_King

I prefer 3. e4

Avatar of NimzoPatzer

As far as I know 3.Nf3 is the main move, against 3.e4 and 3.e3 Black should be able to free himself with e5.

Avatar of Shakaali
hicetnunc wrote:

The two main options are 3.e4 and 3.Nf3, with 3.e3 being a refinement of 3.Nf3, but often leads to the same positions.

And I thought that Nf3 is refinement of e3Smile.

Avatar of Shakaali

Schandorff's book is a repertoire for white, no? If I'm correct, then it's natural that he only gives one continuation for white. In reality there are many possible moves. At least 3. Nf3/e4/e3/Nc3/Qa4+ (in order of decreasing popularity) should be considered. You need a book written from black's perspective to cover them all.

There are some downsides to 3. Nc3 which is why it's not very popular (Nf3/e4/e3 are the often played moves). 3... a6 could be a good reply. If white now continues with 4. e3/e4 then black has b5 and if 5. a4 then he has b4 with a tempo which should give him enough time to organize counterplay. Here's an example.


If white plays 4. a4 instead then black can argue that inserting a6 and a4 benefits him by weakening white's queenside and could just continue development with something like 4... e5 but perhaps 4... Nc6!? attacking white's centre and in some lines protecting the c4-pawn with Na5 could be the most principled way to play.



Avatar of Rogue_King

Schandorff recommends 3. e4

Avatar of moonnie

@Shakaali

I do not agree that Nf3 is a refinement of e3. Where e3 allows systems with e5, Nf3 allows the systems with Bg4. It is a matter of taste what system you rather allow for black.

 

Averuk in his first book prefered e3 over Nf3 while in his latest book he prefers e4

Avatar of SmyslovFan
Rogue_King wrote:

I prefer 3. e4

This is generally the preferred choice for very aggressive players. It makes the QGA a true gambit. 

Regarding 3.e3 vs 3.Nf3, LaBourdonnais played 3.e3 back in the 1840s. His games are still useful to study, despite strongly favoring Ns over Bs. There's an excellent chapter on this in Dvoretsky and Yusupov's Opening Preparation, "You are Right, Monsieur LaBourdonnais!" by Yuri Razuvaev.

He quotes Andrei Voznesensky: "All things return into their own circles. Only these circles revolve." 

In the 16th Century, Leonardo da Cutri (Salvio) published a famous QGA trap beginning with 1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.e3 b5? I think we can safely say that 1.e3 has been known for a long time.

Avatar of benonidoni

I thought Daybreak mistyped his question meaning NF3 not NC3 but noticed in database some excellent players such as timman, Sokolov, Kortschnoi, have all played 3. NC3 and its currently a fairly popular opening according to chessbase 13. The Knight drops back to A2 and the bishop picks up the pawn=.