I said I didn't like 16.f4. How convenient of you to pick the position after move 16 to rant about lol.
Anyway, I'm not interested in arguing. After 8.d4 maybe black is fine with best play, but I prefer white.
But most people don't go for such lines. They play 4...Bxf3
when i play the caro two knights (Via 1.nc3 move order) the only line that i have slight trouble against is 3...nf6. the bishop lines i never understood. Why give the bishop pair so quickly, for not much?
Your question has been answered before: the bishop pair is not relevant in the middle games arising from this opening. But if you are one of thoe who like keeping the bishops at any cost, 3...Nf6 is ok.
when i play the caro two knights (Via 1.nc3 move order) the only line that i have slight trouble against is 3...nf6. the bishop lines i never understood. Why give the bishop pair so quickly, for not much?
Your question has been answered before: the bishop pair is not relevant in the middle games arising from this opening. But if you are one of thoe who like keeping the bishops at any cost, 3...Nf6 is ok.
why play a game where every move you could otherwise simplify into an endgame (something many caro players look forward to ) but you have to watch your back over entering into a favorable open position for white?
in those positions, the knight is rarely fully favorable for black. Even when black achieves a great knight outpost, worse white has to worry about is swapping one of his bishops for it. These lines to me are like starting off with a tiny handicap for no practical or theoretical compensation. IF at least the games had some fundamental disbalance in the knight vs bishop case (like a chigorin defense ) i would entertain the idea, but swapping your bishop so eagerly for no lively dynamic is a no-no in my book.
Yeah, I think of it like a structural defect when maybe engines and GMs are saying equal...
It may be equal, but you'll generally have the more pleasant options as the game goes through its usual transitions.
Yeah, I think of it like a structural defect when maybe engines and GMs are saying equal...
It may be equal, but you'll generally have the more pleasant options as the game goes through its usual transitions.
Equal does not always mean equal, not in a practical sense anyway, a position that is theoretically equal but much easier to play is worth its weight in gold
I think that basiclly every major option against 2 knights is legit, 3. Bg4 followed by taking on f3 is probably the most thematic, but 4. Bh5 is also very playable and it scores well, it just depends on your own personal taste, if you like more thematic, classical Caro positions you should go with 4.Bxf3, if you like something sharper and less known you should go with 4.Bh5 or 3.Nf6, like I said, every move is ok..
There are practical considerations even at the pro level.
Yes, especially with todays fast time limits, nobody want a difficult position, and even if black does know what they are doing we are still only talking about equality. That is why I gave up the Caro Cann, black often has to go through hoops just to get a level game, rather just play the sicilian and give white more chances to go wrong
I like 1.e4 e5 as black for an equal game.
The Sicilian has always been a little annoying to me, with either color 
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You can hardly beat a top chess engine with this line, though.
To do that, you need KIDs and Stonewalls. The Caro-Kann Advance is good for drawing.
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You can hardly beat a top chess engine with this line, though.
To do that, you need KIDs and Stonewalls. The Caro-Kann Advance is good for drawing.
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when i play the caro two knights (Via 1.nc3 move order) the only line that i have slight trouble against is 3...nf6. the bishop lines i never understood. Why give the bishop pair so quickly, for not much?