Question to Stonewall Attack players.

I begin to study Stonewall Attack and found this Youtube video.

I think it's playable for both white and black.
But this method prevent me to play normal Stonewall Attack's middlegame.

Can I avoid this situation?
How do you think about the clip's method?

Thank you GJ_Chess.

That's not how I was taught by a 2200. I was taught 3.f4 4.Nf3 and THEN 5.Bd4 unless black has played ...Bf5, in which case, play Be3 as you absolutely don't want to trade your good bishop off.

That's the basic move order I played in most of my stonewall "attacks". Then, I was told to play for the Ne5 outpost, trade for a piece, follow with the next knight, plan for an f3 rook lift, bring the other rook behind it planning to pawnstorm ...0-0 while closing the queenside off with pawns or pawnstorm ...0-0-0s which is much more effective. I never really got to do much rook lifting fighting opponents trying to create their own outpost, or rip my pawns open.

I still play the stonewall defense because it's all I know, except englund hartlaub charlick gambit against 1.d4 which I love for being the OPPOSITE of the stonewall straightjacket i despise for putting my own pawns in the way and hobbling my mobility and attacking chances.

You really need to be a patient positional leaning player to playthat formation.

I find it's gotten much harder to play as a 1700 than a 1400, and the popularity of the London system doesn't help.

That video uses a different move order than i did. I hope there's a new idea that'll help you from what I learned. I really wish the 2200 that talked me into it because it can be played from both sides against almost everything had left my colle pyramid alone. He put me on a miserable path that's hard to get off.

I play to end games in 20 moves or less. That isn't a stonewall thing.

@gik-tally Thank you for your answer.
I will try your move order.
I am quite new to Stonewall, so I still get some confused.
Could you please check your move? Bd4 and Be3, Are they correct?
Your detail educates me.
If i find anything about this topic. I'll be back to post again.

I try to move the same orders as the clip.
But I play a3 before Nf3.
I try it in Scid and it says (-0.50) for white.

The Stonewall Attack is very weak, and the Stonewall Dutch, like the Classical, be a last resort and only played if White beats you to the long diagonal.

1.d4 d5 2.e3? Bf5 3.f4 e6 4.Nf3 Bd6 is terrible for White. Black has taken full advantage of the weakness on e4 - Nf6 is coming ans could be played at a sooner point too.

As Black, it should be a last resort.

1.d4 f5 - now, let's think about this. Unless Black plays the Leningrad, what does he want to do. First play Nf6 and e6 (A French Defense player like myself will play 1.d4 e6 followed by 2...f5 and 3...Nf6), and then what? There are Black pawns on d7, e6, and f5. That Bishop on c8 hates life right now. If allowed, Black wants to play b6 and Bb7.

What about White? If White knew that Black would play the Stonewall no matter what, White is winning after 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e6 4.Nf3 d5?? 5.Bf4!! With e3 and Bd3 to follow, a formation Black CANNOT allow with a Stonewall formation.

So here are the rules of the Stonewall and Classical Dutch:

1) After 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e6 4.Nf3 or 1.d4 e6 2.c4 f5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3, because the Knight is committed to f3 and can no longer go to e2, play 4...Bb4!, similar to a Nimzo-Indian but accelerated with ...f5 played - no need to play ...Ne4 to get in ...f5. If Qb3, then ...a5 and only if kicked by a3 or after White castles - especially if the pawn is the only legal recapture, take on c3. Black will still play b6 and Bb7.

2) If any other sequence of moves without g3, like 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e6 4.e3 or 1.d4 f5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.e3 e6 4.Nf3, then 4...b6 and 5...Bb7.

3) The Stonewall (or Classical) should ONLY be played when White has played g3 by move 4. After 1.d4 f5 2.g3 or 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e6 4.g3 or even if the Knight is played, 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nf3 e6 4.g3, this is not the time to play b6. White beat you to the long diagonal. NOW AND ONLY NOW is the time to execute either the Classical (4...d6) or Stonewall (4...d5) Dutch. Which you play is a matter of preference. I play the Stonewall. Many others play the Classical.

So in summary:

First 3 moves are f5, Nf6, and e6 or e6, f5, and Nf6

If White has played in some order d4, c4, Nc3, and Nf3, play 4...Bb4! And you will later fianchetto the light-squared Bishop.

If White plays anything else without moving the g-pawn, play 4...b6!

If White fianchettos the light-squared Bishop, ONLY THEN, play the Stonewall (or Classical)

Good explanation! A "mic drop" moment! No more talk on this, now. Time to move on.

@ThrillerFan Thank you very much for your detail.
I will keep your advice to build my 1.d4 repertoire for black.
P.S.
I follow your comments and next year I plan to study French to play with 1.e4 .

And the advantage to playing the French in conjunction to the Stonewall or Classical Dutch is that you can answer 1.d4 with 1...e6 and hence avoid 2.Bg5, the Staunton Gambit, and the Poisoned Spike (2.g4).

Thank you. @ThrillerFan
I'll study it.

The point of playing knight to f as soon as possible is to defend against checks through your open f file. If someone plays e4 against your black stonewall.. they're bringing their queen and knight in to rip you a new one.

I'll share a cool counter attack I came up with after trying to chase an outpost knight with my queens knight when i get off the bus In a minute. It'll show you what the danger is

That's why you play knight to f as soon as you push the pawn. After this game, I always played 4.Nf3 unless something else came up. That's what staunton players want to do... come in fast before you can castle and force your king to give castling rights up with an open kingside. You'll see how annoying that is, even when you defend correctly, but that queen trap as a 1400 is STILL one of my favorite counters, especially because the stonewall "attack" is an optimistic name. I call it a straightjacket, but I'm all about wide open spaces and mobility. Stonewall is about patience and just closing off every open line your opponent want to come through.

If your opponent castles kingside, then just pawn chain and push until it's entirely closed. You can't get out, but your opponent can't get in if you do it right... then you just fight on the kingside throwing everything at your opponent. Hopefully, he'll have all his queenside pieces out of the fight while you squeeze everything out and trade Knights off as those are better in closed positions.

I did have one really satisfying game against a higher rated opponent since I started playing again where he'd committed EVERYTHING to the queenside and had nothing to prevent me from swarming him and eventually trapping his queen. If EVERY stonewall went like that, i wouldn't want to quit it.

If a game goes over 30 moves, it's too long in my world, even if I win it eventually. I don't want quiet little pawn pushes and polite trades.

A bonus of playing it on both sides, besides playing the same moves is that as you're limiting how your opponent's can come at you, another of your defending will become no brainer automatic. That doesn't stop others from finding surprises. Queenside fianchettos become annoying when opponents decide to go after your center pawns... they're playing a patient game too.

indeed. Following Thrillerfan's advice is pretty smart. I'm definitely not a fan of the French, but yeah, it is traditional and worth studying. Saying that, it is pragmatic ta say that your goals is unrealistic. No matter what, you will have to study more to bridge your expectations to what you think is do-able to what you want to accomplish. You are given an outline, a rough estimate. Therein lies your Responsibility of due diligence.

French is very very good, but to me, the exchange french positions and some other positions are too much open for me to be comfortable. My king just feels too open (same problem with me in the alapin) That's why I use the French only when I know that my opponent will choose a closed line.

In addition, I recommend studying Bird's Opening (1. f4). Might be useful at some point. As it is, don't be rigid. Stonewall attack in of itself is not a Mainline. Or a trend these days. There's a reason for that (as you'll probably see for yourself as you grow). This is only a crutch to help you you gain experience but definitely not a long term repertoire. A surprise opening at best.

The exchange French is the easiest of all lines to face. No more Bishop being stuck behind the pawn chain.

If you take on the symmetrical approach - Nf6, Bd6, O-O, Bg4 (Be6 if White wastes time with h3), Nbd7, c6, Qc7, etc, there is only one thing you need to do to master it. KNOW YOUR MINOR PIECE ENDINGS!

Yeah I know but the positions feel too open to me. I hate those Greek gift, mating ideas from white

@gik-tally, @najdorf96 Thank you for your advice.
@gik-tally I am quite busy now. But I will follow your detail.
From your other post, I may look to the colle too.
I heard that Queen's Gambit is very good to study.
But it has much theory. So I may try these openings first.

@rupam44 I read French exchange a little last month.
I feel the same that it's very open.
I don't know what to do after that.
Thank you @ThrillerFan about "Know your minor piece endings".

If you plan to play the French and any non-indian defense against d4, I highly recommend you replay to 1. d4 with 1...e6. This has several advantages:

1) If white wants to play a London system, you can hold back the d-pawn and go for an early Qb6: 1. d4 e6 Bf4 c5 e3 Qb6. Black outscores white in the lichess master database, and it's perfectly sound. Look up "Crazy Knight Attack lichess" for some of the ideas.
2) Against the Jobava London, you have 2. Bb4! which really screws up White's setup.

3) You keep white guessing whether you're going to play a Dutch, a QGD, a Nimzo, a Keres (d4 e6 c4 bb4+), or even the English defense (1. d4 e6 2. c4 b6, really good!)

4) If you're happy to play a French, there's no downsides at all!

You should never get Greek-Gifted in the Exchange Variation. That is in the Classical, you must avoid the following:

In the Exchange, here is what you are looking at. No Greek Gift.