"Simplified" Opening Repertoires

Sort:
Avatar of Chicken_Monster
thee_black_knight wrote:

Nice info here, thanks Chicken_Monster.

I have played chess, on and off, for most my long life. Joined chess.com a little over a year ago, and I was not doing very well. So I decided to learn openings, and I ended up learning 1 for white and 2 for black. Now I am a 1400 player.

So I do not understand the first comment, about waiting to learn openings. I'm ready to learn more. Please explain?

Would you please give the details of your opening repertoires for White and Black? The more detail the better.

What do you want me to explain, exactly? I am just learning openings myself. Some say wait...others say don't wait. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Avatar of BlunderingKnight101

Ponziani works great against players that have not learned openings yet. I will vary from it after a few moves, if I see a trap they might go for.

Sicilian works good against e4. I have a different one against d5. Do not know if it has name, could be a variation of an opening. I learned it from video a GM had made, I could find it and message it to you. Has no opening name on video, the GM said he used to use it against d5 with a lot of success. And it does work great against d5. First move is c6 instead of c5. then d6 and Qc7.

Learn these 3 very well first, then maybe London or something. Worked for me, for a starting place to learn openings.

Avatar of BlunderingKnight101

Thanks XPLAYERJX, that makes sense. I used to win a lot of tournaments when I was real young. But we all were not that good then.

My point being, have played all my long life without learning openings. So maybe learning a few openings was perfect for me. I also see better variations of the openings I use when neccessary. Especially traps.

So maybe it depends on how long you have played, not your rating. For learning openings or not.

Avatar of Senchean
Chicken_Monster wrote:

I like this repertoire. That level of detail was helpful to me. It's not a simple repertoire to master, but I like it. Do you ever try the Semi-Slav, or just the Slav?

The Semi Slav is a very sharp opening.  And what that means is you have to play exactly in order to not be at a disadvantage.  I think more in concepts, so for me I try to stay away from sharp openings.  Now to be honest, I don't have a lot of experience with the Slav because I don't run into d4 that often at my chess club, unfortunately.

As someone said above, openings are a matter of taste.  Now, according to Jeremy Silman and others, what you should do is pick openings that mirror your personality and play what you like and enjoy.  E4, or the open games, tend to be more tactical, and more about attacking and mating the king.  D4 and C4 or the closed games tend to be more positional and about maneuvering and getting a good endgame.  Considering that I like strategy I prefer the Closed games.  Plus I looked at the Ruy Lopez (1.e4 e5, Nf3 Nc6, Bb5.) and decided I wanted to avoid it because there is just SO MUCH to it.  The same is true for the Sicilian.  And most of the time when you play an opening, White decides the game with E4, D4, or C4 and others, but Black decides the opening.  For example, if you play e4, and black plays c5 you are in a Sicilian.  If he plays e5 then then you can potentially decide what kind of opening you are in with 3. Bc4 (Italian game) or 3. Bb5 (Ruy Lopez).  But then you have the myraid of variations within those openings.

However, the other side of the argument is, that if you choose openings you aren't that comfortable with you will help improve your overall game.  Plus the Ruy Lopez is considered "Best by Test," as Fischer called it.  And many people consider it to be the best opening to study because it has just about very major pawn structure.

Which honestly, in order to better understand the opening in general read Mastering Opening Strategy (as I said before) and look at the various pawn structures and learn their plans.  There are two books, Pawn Structure Chess and Winning Chess Middlegames which go over this.  Plus there is IM Daniel Rensch's Pawn Structure 101 series here on Chess.com which is very useful.

Also, I forgot to mention, if you play E4 there is the King's Indian Attack (1.e4 followed by d3, Nd2, Ngf3, g3, Bg2, and 0-0,) which tends to give you a more positional game.  And You worry more about reaching a particular piece setup rather than specific variations just like the London or the Colle Systems.  Plus it can be reached through transposition via many different openings.

Avatar of Chicken_Monster

My understanding was the Black, for the most part, chose the opening?

I think you should know it all, ideally. You may be a d4 player, but if you are Black your opponent may open with e4...

When I play the KIA as White I usually start with something like, for example, 1. Nf3 2. g3 3. Bg2 4. O-O 5. d3 6. c3... maybe your way is better but I don't know...

 

 

 

 

 

Avatar of Senchean

Well when I say I'm a d4 I mean as White.  Ironically as black I mostly play the French Defense because most players in my chess club play e4.  And black does mainly choose the opening.  It's just that white chooses the style of game by playing either d4 or e4.

As far as the KIA it's a matter of taste.  Using the 1.Nf3 first is just transposing into it.  Plus you get an idea of what your opponent is doing and as far as I know it's perfectly ligit.  Plus it gives you the opition to move to another opening depending on what they play.  It's why I'm playing 1.Nf3 as white now.  Plus my repertoire is based is built around restriction strategy.  So I chose openings that prevent counterplay and restrict my opponent's options as much as I can.  Or they create imediate weaknesses which i can attack in order to restrict his or her pieces.

Avatar of Nckchrls

I used to play a lot then took a break for 30 years. I didn't have any interest in getting into "computer lines" so I use the KIA for White. Usually good enough to draw even against better players and with chances on weakness. I've always had best result with 1.e4.

With Black, I usually go with the Fort Knox French on KP which I noticed Karpov used in the late 80's or so. Kind of constricted but again good enough to draw with chances on weakness. Main transposition to prepare is the French Advance. If I'm a bit more energetic the Dragon Sicilian is an option but be prepared for the Alapin by White.

On QP, usually the KID which can be more complex but it often can transpose to or near the Dragon. Probably need to be familar with the Basic KID, 4 pawns and lastly Samisch basics. A backup is the old QGD with less than top players. Either Capablanca line or Cambridge Springs but have a plan for freeing the QB.

A great book written totally by GM's is "How to Open a Chess Game" by Evans, Hort, Gligorich etc. I think it was Hort or Portisch that recommended the KIA for ease of use openings. 

Avatar of Chicken_Monster

My understanding was that using KID as Black was powerful, yet required you to know TONS of theory very well. Am I mistaken? I'm not lazy, it's just I wonder about spending that much time on KID....maybe it is not as bad as I thought? I thought there were so many variations Black must know?

Avatar of Nckchrls

IMO, if you're playing somebody who plays for a living there's no way around getting into the computer lines muck whether it's KID or not. For more casual players, the chance that they know reams of theory is probably pretty low.

What's nice about the KID is that the basic game motives are pretty clear. Typically black works the Kside and White works the Qside in the Mainline and Samisch. It doesn't take much game review and over the board to get used to those ideas. The only other line I bothered to get familar with was the 4 pawns which is a bit different as it pressures the Kside early but that does have the potential to transpose to the Sicilian once in awhile. For practical purposes, you might run into someone's pet line that gains advantage but a blowup there just widens your KID experience.

Maybe the QID is an alternative if White Nf3 but I never liked playing it so I don't know its basis. Plus you need something for White Nc3 anyway. What else is there? It seemed to me Benoni, Slav and Nimzo were much more complex and with the QGD its very hard to even get equality against a good player, forget about possibilities for advantage.

It probably can't hurt to look over a few main line and samisch KID's, maybe the first dozen moves or so, and then play some skittles games. Might find it's a generally solid defense and fun to play. 

Avatar of shell_knight

I dunno... queen's gambit takes not much to learn either.  Especially if we're talking lower levels.  Maybe just a few lines and you're good to go.  I tend to think the KID is harder at every level... maybe I'm wrong.

Avatar of toiyabe

XPLAYERJX, why are you the only person throughout the chess.com forums that feels the need to type in abrasive fonts/font sizes?  All your posts are offensive to innocent retinas everywhere!  Yell

Avatar of Chicken_Monster
Fiveofswords wrote:

Against weaker opponents you might muddle through the KID okay without knowing much theory...but there will be a huge diversity of openings...and do you understand why you are playing your first three moves? the logic of it? why not 2...d5?

No. Why?

Avatar of Poldi_der_Drache

1. Nf3 gives black too many choices don't really see why you would let him call the shots.

I know very little openings and usually always play the same, e4 with white.

With black the Sicilian defense vs e4 and against other openings mostly Nf6 and g6 fiancetto on king side

Avatar of MainlineNovelty
intotheInfinity wrote:

1. Nf3 gives black too many choices...

...such as...

Avatar of Poldi_der_Drache

If white plays Nf3 I would play sicilain defense because that's the game I prefer as black if you play d4 I would not have that option

Avatar of shell_knight

It's not going to be a sicilian unless white plays e4 at some point... and Nf3 certainly doesn't commit him to that.

Avatar of Poldi_der_Drache

Ok maybe I am wrong just feels like black has more options if white is not pushing a pawn first.

Avatar of Chicken_Monster
Fiveofswords wrote:

you will perform far better playing moves you do understand

Of course. If I make KID part of my repertoire (which I am not planning on doing any time in the near future but who knows) then I will learn the reasoning behind the moves. That's why, even though many told me to buy MCO, I bought the Watson four-volume set instead. Watson reallty explains why a given move should or should not be made. MCO doesn't (is what I am told).

Avatar of Chicken_Monster

I'm keeping an open mind. I have only tried KIA 1.Nf3 a couple of times. I typically open with 1.d4 (used to open with e4). Maybe I should learn KID. I need more input from people, articles, etc. I'm still at the point where I can be molded...I don't know what my repertoire should look like (not that I can't change it later).

Avatar of shell_knight

Yes, 1...Nf6 is called the KID and the KIA is unsound after 1.e4 e5.  You certainly know your openings.