SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:
Ah, I'm looking at the lichess database so it's probably a bit different.
It seems like the lichess database is slightly more accurate since most chess teachers use it instead of the chess.com database
Ranking all responses to e4
Sort:
2. d4 against the Sicilian, 27W/36B
2. d4 against the Caro-Kann, 32W/24B
= Sicilian confirmed better? 🤣
TheSampson wrote:
PawnHurricanes wrote:
TheSampson wrote:
Also, your reasoning with the Sicilian is pretty poor- “Wouldn’t you rather play an opening that nobody knows how to play against?” is a terrible way to play chess. In the Sicilian, if white knows what he’s doing, black gets a great game. If white doesn’t know what he’s doing, black gets an even better game. The Sicilian can’t be refuted, which makes it so good. The element of surprise is a poor weapon in chess, because there’s a level where everyone knows how to play against every one of these openings. The real way to work around this boundary and adopt an opening where the initiating side is good in every line.
I guess, I was thinking more about club level and thinking about the fact that there are around 10-15 responses to e4 c5 as well
Fair, but most of the 10-15 responses are dubious. a3, h3, b3, g3, all are poor. The only decent lines a Sicilian player has to know are, the Open Sicilian, the Closed Sicilian, the Smith-Morra (probably the most important one to learn how to play against tbh it’s really poisoned), the Grand Prix Attack, maybe the Wing Gambit, and maybe the new line with Nc3 and Bb5 (still not hard to play against though). Most of these are easy to learn. The Sicilian is adaptable. Of course, the Najdorf is theory-packed, but if you play even the Classical, you don’t really have to learn too much stuff.
Are you forgetting the Alapin?
Jun 4, 2023
0
#45
FrogboyWarpz wrote:
TheSampson wrote:
PawnHurricanes wrote:
TheSampson wrote:
Also, your reasoning with the Sicilian is pretty poor- “Wouldn’t you rather play an opening that nobody knows how to play against?” is a terrible way to play chess. In the Sicilian, if white knows what he’s doing, black gets a great game. If white doesn’t know what he’s doing, black gets an even better game. The Sicilian can’t be refuted, which makes it so good. The element of surprise is a poor weapon in chess, because there’s a level where everyone knows how to play against every one of these openings. The real way to work around this boundary and adopt an opening where the initiating side is good in every line.
I guess, I was thinking more about club level and thinking about the fact that there are around 10-15 responses to e4 c5 as well
Fair, but most of the 10-15 responses are dubious. a3, h3, b3, g3, all are poor. The only decent lines a Sicilian player has to know are, the Open Sicilian, the Closed Sicilian, the Smith-Morra (probably the most important one to learn how to play against tbh it’s really poisoned), the Grand Prix Attack, maybe the Wing Gambit, and maybe the new line with Nc3 and Bb5 (still not hard to play against though). Most of these are easy to learn. The Sicilian is adaptable. Of course, the Najdorf is theory-packed, but if you play even the Classical, you don’t really have to learn too much stuff.
Are you forgetting the Alapin?
I mighta forgot it in my list
I was replying to Sampson 👍
Jun 4, 2023
0
#47
A complete laugher by the OP. Nobody knows how to beat it?
The Caro-Kann is absolutely NOT the reason I quit 1.e4. It is 1...e5.
Against the Caro, I had excellent results with the Fantasy Variation.
I played the Caro briefly as Black. Why did I quit the Caro? Got blown out badly in the 7th round of the US Open one year (mated by move 25) in the only game where I ever FACED the Fantasy Variation as Black.
With computers and perfect play, it is only a draw, but not something I ever want to defend again.
Oddly enough, I went through 2 stints of playing the Caro-Kann, both about 3 months in length. They happened to be during the 2 times I went to the National Open. Going to the National Open for the 3rd time in a week and a half, and for the first time, I will actually be playing my long time love, the French Defense, for the first time in the state of Nevada. The one time I went to Reno in 2008, I played the Scandinavian in my 2 games as Black and the Sokolsky in my 4 games as White. The 2 games as Black, I beat a 2250ish player, and lost to Milekset Kachiyan.
Anyway, long story short, number 1 should be 1...e5. Then the next 3 everyone's opinion is different. For me, it would be 1...e6, 1...c5, 1...c6, in that order. But anything other than 1...e5 for number 1 is a laugher.
Jun 4, 2023
0
#48
TheSampson wrote:
Open Sicilian’s great for both sides. Both sides get dynamic advantages yet obtain almost no weaknesses. Absolute perfection and it’s a crime it doesn’t get played more.
Closed Sicilian just allows black to get a spacious position on the queenside- and white’s pawn storm is easily stopped.
Grand Prix Attack gives a decent position but it just doesn’t work. Gotham demonstrated a bullet game where Magnus Carlsen was playing the opening, don’t even say it.
Smith-Morra’s acceptable but black can easily neutralize white’s advantage and be a pawn up.
Wing Gambit’s absolute garbage and white destroys his own queenside and gives up a pawn so black can have the upmost advantage
Alapin’s decent but d5 almost immediately equalizes.
Moscow’s just not reliable.
Rossolimo’s great and I love it but not everyone’s gonna play Nc6 against 2. Nf3.
Tiviakov or whatever it’s called is good and I think it’s a useful sideline, but black does well in it.
Everything else is just a major sideline that equalizes almost immediately.
The best line is 1.e4 c5 2.a3 Nc6? (2...g6 is actually best) 3.b4 cxb4 4.axb4 Nxb4 5.c3 Nc6 6.d4 d5 7.exd5 Qxd5 8.Na3 Nf6 9.Nb5 and black is up s*** creek. After 9...Qd8 10.d5 Ne5 11.Bf4 Nfd7 12.Nf3 f6, White has many ways to win.
FrogboyWarpz wrote:
TheSampson wrote:
PawnHurricanes wrote:
TheSampson wrote:
Also, your reasoning with the Sicilian is pretty poor- “Wouldn’t you rather play an opening that nobody knows how to play against?” is a terrible way to play chess. In the Sicilian, if white knows what he’s doing, black gets a great game. If white doesn’t know what he’s doing, black gets an even better game. The Sicilian can’t be refuted, which makes it so good. The element of surprise is a poor weapon in chess, because there’s a level where everyone knows how to play against every one of these openings. The real way to work around this boundary and adopt an opening where the initiating side is good in every line.
I guess, I was thinking more about club level and thinking about the fact that there are around 10-15 responses to e4 c5 as well
Fair, but most of the 10-15 responses are dubious. a3, h3, b3, g3, all are poor. The only decent lines a Sicilian player has to know are, the Open Sicilian, the Closed Sicilian, the Smith-Morra (probably the most important one to learn how to play against tbh it’s really poisoned), the Grand Prix Attack, maybe the Wing Gambit, and maybe the new line with Nc3 and Bb5 (still not hard to play against though). Most of these are easy to learn. The Sicilian is adaptable. Of course, the Najdorf is theory-packed, but if you play even the Classical, you don’t really have to learn too much stuff.
Are you forgetting the Alapin?
I mean in the Alapin you really only have to know d5, Nc6, Nf6, e6, and delay taking on d4 for a bit
It’s a bit more dangerous than that. White has many ways of getting black into an uncomfortable position.
FrogboyWarpz wrote:
It’s a bit more dangerous than that. White has many ways of getting black into an uncomfortable position.
ok
oh I thought you would rebut sad 😔
you guys are tripping 😭😭😭
this is the only correct list I’ve seen in the forums
ScrumptiousBricks wrote:
you guys are tripping 😭😭😭
this is the only correct list I’ve seen in the forums
well, half-right, the sicilian is ranked way too high
I don’t even want to argue with you anymore
ScrumptiousBricks wrote:
ScrumptiousBricks wrote:
you guys are tripping 😭😭😭
this is the only correct list I’ve seen in the forums
well, half-right, the sicilian is ranked way too high
That’s right. Sicilian shouldnt be used unless you are a 59000 rated Sigma-Alpha Ultra Mega Boss GM
FrogboyWarpz wrote:
ScrumptiousBricks wrote:
ScrumptiousBricks wrote:
you guys are tripping 😭😭😭
this is the only correct list I’ve seen in the forums
well, half-right, the sicilian is ranked way too high
That’s right. Sicilian shouldnt be used unless you are a 59000 rated Sigma-Alpha Ultra Mega Boss GM
you’re not funny
I’m just stating facts round here
Jun 4, 2023
0
#59
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:
PawnHurricanes wrote:
but they are challenging, that's the point
Not more so than the 10-15 responses to the Caro-Kann.
Ah, I'm looking at the lichess database so it's probably a bit different.