Refuting the Dragon

 The refutation for the Sicilian Dragon is the 12.Kb1 line of the Yougoslav attack. It forces black to make consessions that as the game goes to an endgame his position is getting  inferior to defend.

 If someone has find how to equalize this line as black i will be glad to hear of it and few milions chess players too.

Black is by no means forced to play into the 12. Kb1 line, though.

Oh! really? What is better for black after 9. Bc4 ? and don't tell me taking on d4 is better, I am gonna cry! Were is your deviation before the 12.Kb1 that gives black a better game?

10... Rb8 also known as the Chinese Dragon

I don't understand your comment, sorry.

The Chinese 10...Rb8 it's a sound option for black but it's not so solid and requires a lot of computer preparation for black as white can attack with many ways. It's a double edge game.

I am not sure if it's better from the classical 10...Rc8 but from the moment black struggles to prove equality against the 12.Kb1 line then why to do not enter the Chinese.? From this point of view I agree with you Gilasaurus.

Gunvald123 wrote:

Gilasaurus hat geschrieben:

I don't understand your comment, sorry.

no problem i was just joking. wing chun is a chinese martial art said to be very ineffective.

Wing Chun inefective? Now you are joking for sure.

My theory is it's cause it was invented and first used by a woman. That's why its "ineffective".

From the little I know, Wing Chun was invented and transformed from Yip Man , the Master trainer of Bruce Lee. The Wing Chun is the first complete form of Kung fu marcial art as it unites all the techniques were spared in different categories. Imagine someone in chess to unite all the attacking techniques in one opening system were forks-pinns-skewers-discoveries-double attacks e.t.c come from all over the place.

I was had the honor to practice some techniques before couple a years with a Wing Chun Master. He was so fast that Mohamad Ali at his best looks like a turtle next to him.

Wing Chun is the definition of the Marcial Art.

Gunvald123 @

Lol...you know, we are not all people born with the same talent to do thinks. I can practice chess 12 hours a day with the same methodology Baduur Jobava did but I will never reach the half of his performance in chess. I mentioned Jobava because his chess has been characterized ineffective as you said about Wing Chun but what exactly means ineffective and under which sircumnstances.

The lack of blocks from strikes : The philosophy of Wing Chun is to defend with a faster attack, it not based on how good is your positioning and technique to block the strike but how fast can you anticipate the intention and strike first. The best defense is to attack first. The initiative in chess depends on timing. If you master the Wing Chun , you don't need to block strikes.

The lack of ground game : Ofcourse Wing Chun it's not designed to last so long until you and your partner still fighting on the ground. If you fall down from a combination of a Wing Chun attack , you usually stand up quick on your feat but your problem is more in your consciousness that you can't explain how quick it was that! Dam! After the second knock down your mentality point it's a disaster, it's a fight that realize, you can't win. A good player in chess knows when to resign.

The general positioning of the arms : As I said , the main battle of Wing Chun is in your mind not how your body stands before the fight begins. Don't think how you will defend the strike, think what is the weakness to attack. Wing Chun based on Speedness, quirkiness and I don't mean the speed of the execution only. There are many kinds of speed.

As in Marcial Arts , so in chess there are techniques and positions that favor different people for stylish various reasons. The Sicilian Dragon it's affective for the chess players that anticipate first the attacking opportunities in this weird " positioning of the arms ".

Yes I agree, we should return on topic, just to remind you that I didn't put any system above the others. You characterize it as ineffective and I said it's the definition of being affective. That not make it better from anything else.

The Chinese 10...Rb8 is a similar case but as Kasparov said when you play black, you need a opening system-variation or line that besides screaming to kicking also. This line against the Yugoslav attack has prove that knows the art of kicking even when it loses.

If black goes against 12.Kb1 he's kicks are in limited edition...and what if black play differently? Well, he loses differently.

HA HA @ you thinking Bruce Lee who used Wing Chun to crush people would lose in a ground fight!

The only person on the ground in that ground fight would be Bruce Lee opponent after he knocked them out.

Even your train wreck was a terrible joke!

If you are going to derail a thread at least have the courtesy to derail it with something entertaining and truthful!

The only relevant things in this thread so far have been said by pfren and FirebrandX.

Here is another critical line.

Also, dont forget the lines where white plays 9.0-0-0 instead of 9.Bc4. If white does not accept the pawn sacrifice black has to carefully defend a slightly worse endgame for a while.

Further, if you want to refute the dragon in OTB chess, a good idea is to prepare sidelines.

Regards, a long time Dragon player who recently switched to French Rubinstein. (and from KI to Nimzo). I still play those openings against weaker players. They are risky but score extremely well against weaker players.

The 12...Re8 it's not critical anymore, black is busted!

Shut up or give variations

 I will not shut up and i 'll give you nothing. I am just informing you, that you live in the dark.  Go and pay some money to learn how and why.

Ahahahaha. Thanks for informing everyone that you are a loudmouth who wont prove his claims.

GO CARO-KANN!!!