Bg1 is best move
Response to E6 D5 structures against my English.
What are you playing against these e5/f5 structures? Are you playing 2.Nc3? Are you playing 2.g3?
Here's the caveat - Do not fianchetto against these systems. You've got the e3-systems, which are fine against the e5-f5 setups. However, let's say you are a 2.g3 player. When you play 2.g3, first of all, the first rule is "When Black plays ...Nc6, you must play Nc3!"
After say, 1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nc6, the move 3.Bg2? is an alarming error, and after 3...f5! 4.Nc3 (or 4.Nf3) Nf6! and White has nothing!
1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nc6, the correct move is 3.Nc3!, and now if something like 3...Nf6, then 4.Bg2 and you are good to go!
But let's say Black plays 3...f5. Observe the following:
What are you playing against these e5/f5 structures? Are you playing 2.Nc3? Are you playing 2.g3?
Here's the caveat - Do not fianchetto against these systems. You've got the e3-systems, which are fine against the e5-f5 setups. However, let's say you are a 2.g3 player. When you play 2.g3, first of all, the first rule is "When Black plays ...Nc6, you must play Nc3!"
After say, 1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nc6, the move 3.Bg2? is an alarming error, and after 3...f5! 4.Nc3 (or 4.Nf3) Nf6! and White has nothing!
1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nc6, the correct move is 3.Nc3!, and now if something like 3...Nf6, then 4.Bg2 and you are good to go!
But let's say Black plays 3...f5. Observe the following:
I'm exactly what you told above. A g3 player.
Or maybe
These are natural ways for me to go wrong. In first position, I just don't have any advantage, and black looks me better, and strong control of center.
In 2nd position, my knight will be trapped soon.
But I see, Nf3 D4 is great move order, point being D5 Nh4 Ng2. I see your point. Thank you boss.
ThrillerFan wrote:
What are you playing against these e5/f5 structures? Are you playing 2.Nc3? Are you playing 2.g3?
Here's the caveat - Do not fianchetto against these systems. You've got the e3-systems, which are fine against the e5-f5 setups. However, let's say you are a 2.g3 player. When you play 2.g3, first of all, the first rule is "When Black plays ...Nc6, you must play Nc3!"
After say, 1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nc6, the move 3.Bg2? is an alarming error, and after 3...f5! 4.Nc3 (or 4.Nf3) Nf6! and White has nothing!
1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nc6, the correct move is 3.Nc3!, and now if something like 3...Nf6, then 4.Bg2 and you are good to go!
But let's say Black plays 3...f5. Observe the following:
I really like your, recommendations, thank you.
I have some troubles, with immediate E6 D5 by black, and more or less white is forced to D4. You know of any alternatives?
I tried E3, in between, trying to stay in English Territory, but somehow, D4 will always have to be played. And in a classical tournament, I'm not as strong in Queen's Gambit as in English.
This appears to be a good variation to me, somewhat playable. Maybe
If you have played Nc3, then d4 is forced. If Nc3 has not been played, you can play the Reti. 1.c4 e6 2.g3 d5 3.Nf3 is the same as 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 e6 3.g3.
If you have played Nc3, then d4 is forced. If Nc3 has not been played, you can play the Reti. 1.c4 e6 2.g3 d5 3.Nf3 is the same as 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 e6 3.g3.
Yeah, but Reti is a whole different opening to study. I think exchange on D5, and Bf4 should hold me games. Thank you for your valuable suggestions bro. May god bless ya.
Playing e6, and d5 is one of the first ways, tried playing against the english, and don't really know why moved away from it because straightforward pawn in the centre and developing, i.e perfectly good. Your form of the exchange variation with early g3, doesn't cause black any problems at all, because can easily develop the white squared bishop.
In the e5, f5 lines ThrillerFan was illustrating how keeping g2 free allowed playing Ng2, but in specific line after g5, white can play Nxf5.
Playing e6, and d5 is one of the first ways, tried playing against the english, and don't really know why moved away from it because straightforward pawn in the centre and developing, i.e perfectly good. Your form of the exchange variation with early g3, doesn't cause black any problems at all, because can easily develop the white squared bishop.
In the e5, f5 lines ThrillerFan was illustrating how keeping g2 free allowed playing Ng2, but in specific line after g5, white can play Nxf5.
Thrillerfan was actually referring to variation, after intermediate move E6, protecting F5 pawn, and then G5. But his idea is good. And certainly worth playing in a tournament.
So should I study Reti, and is it best way to tackle E6 D5?,
I do play Queen's Gambit good too, but it's like stepping in unknown territory, as I have deep preparations in English opening, and have to follow my intuition only in Queen's Gambit. Also , it just gives to play Semi Slav, or any other way he like to play. Allows him to, show his preparation against D4. Which I think will backfire against me, in a tournament.
With exchange on D5 and early G3, I usually assume my opponent will be out of theory, and I will somehow try queeenside minority attack, by A4 B4 like in Caro kann exchange variation.
Still it's mostly challenging to play in these positions, and almost impossible to win, unless black makes some obvious positional mistake, and allows me to press him.
There are lots of rep books with early g3, in the english, with moves ThrillerFan suggested then avoiding d4, with b3, Bb2 etc. Those books are Marin's, Kosten, Delchev etc. Could also consider, playing d4 later transposing to Catalan after avoiding some lines by black. Think "Wojo's Weapons" suggests this.
You can't avoid transposing to another opening after 1...e6.
The most obvious solution is to play 2.Nc3 d5 3.d4 (capturing at d5 right now gives Black the luxury of placing his Bf8 at its optimal square), and make a repertoire based on the exchange QGD variation, which is not difficult to master: You just need to read a middlegame book on the Carlsbad pawn structure.
You'll also need to know something abut the Mikenas, since it is the most "english-like" approach after 1.c4 e6 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.e4. That is because after 3.g3 d5 is pretty harmless (That knight has come to c3 prematurely), and 3.Nf3 d5 is again a QGD where the exchange at d5 is not that dangerous any more, as Black can develop his Bc8 quite easily.
Playing e6, and d5 is one of the first ways, tried playing against the english, and don't really know why moved away from it because straightforward pawn in the centre and developing, i.e perfectly good. Your form of the exchange variation with early g3, doesn't cause black any problems at all, because can easily develop the white squared bishop.
In the e5, f5 lines ThrillerFan was illustrating how keeping g2 free allowed playing Ng2, but in specific line after g5, white can play Nxf5.
Sorry, flipped moves 6 and 7. Black, of course, should play 6...d6 first, and then after 7.e3 (to develop the Bishop classically) and then 7...g5, white goes 8.Ng2 intending h4.
Sorry, but it has been ages since I have played the English, but if you invert moves 6 and 7 for Black with 7.e3 for White, you get the gyst.
If you have played Nc3, then d4 is forced. If Nc3 has not been played, you can play the Reti. 1.c4 e6 2.g3 d5 3.Nf3 is the same as 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 e6 3.g3.
Yeah, but Reti is a whole different opening to study. I think exchange on D5, and Bf4 should hold me games. Thank you for your valuable suggestions bro. May god bless ya.
After an exchange on d5, Bf4 is not legal without moving the d-pawn first.
Against 1...e6, you basically have 4 choices and none are a pure English. As pfren already mentioned, a transposition is inevitable:
QGD - 1.c4 e6 2.Nc3 (or 2.Nf3) d5 3.d4 Nf6 4.Bg5
Catalan - 1.c4 e6 2.g3 d5 3.d4 (though this move order also allows the Dutch)
Catalan - 1.c4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.d4 Nf6 4.g3
Neo-Catalan - 1.c4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.g3 Nf6 4.Bg2 and if 4...dxc4 then 5.Qa4 and if 4...Be7 then 5.d4 back to a regular Catalan avoiding certain Open Catalan lines.
Reti - 1.c4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.b3 (or 3.g3, which can overlap with the Neo-Catalan.
There may be some other weird offshoots, but ultimately, there is no pure English unless Black plays 2...Nf6 instead of 2...d5. If Black is playing 2...d5, you have a QGD, Catalan, Neo-Catalan, or Reti.
In another thread on the London System, I had specifically said that I highly discourage anybody below say, 2000, from playing the London, English, or Kings Indian Attack, mainly because most lower rated players that I know that play any of those 3 openings see it as a "system" where they can play the same structure against all responses and that just is not so (like how I showed above that the "automatic" moves do not work vs e5/Nc6/f5/Nf6.)
In this thread, I have shown why the English Opening cannot be used as a catch-all system where you close your eyes and look at Black's position after 1.c4/2.g3/3.Bg2/4.Nc3, like Kosten suggests in an old book on the English Opening of his. The English is extremely trans positional, and you need to know a lot of structures to play it successfully.
Just like how I discourage the London, English, or Kings Indian Attack for players below 2000 playing with the White pieces, I also highly discourage the Modern Defense for those with the Black pieces below 2000 for similar reasons, thinking Black's moves are automatic.
If you have played Nc3, then d4 is forced. If Nc3 has not been played, you can play the Reti. 1.c4 e6 2.g3 d5 3.Nf3 is the same as 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 e6 3.g3.
Yeah, but Reti is a whole different opening to study. I think exchange on D5, and Bf4 should hold me games. Thank you for your valuable suggestions bro. May god bless ya.
After an exchange on d5, Bf4 is not legal without moving the d-pawn first.
Against 1...e6, you basically have 4 choices and none are a pure English. As pfren already mentioned, a transposition is inevitable:
QGD - 1.c4 e6 2.Nc3 (or 2.Nf3) d5 3.d4 Nf6 4.Bg5
Catalan - 1.c4 e6 2.g3 d5 3.d4 (though this move order also allows the Dutch)
Catalan - 1.c4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.d4 Nf6 4.g3
Neo-Catalan - 1.c4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.g3 Nf6 4.Bg2 and if 4...dxc4 then 5.Qa4 and if 4...Be7 then 5.d4 back to a regular Catalan avoiding certain Open Catalan lines.
Reti - 1.c4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.b3 (or 3.g3, which can overlap with the Neo-Catalan.
There may be some other weird offshoots, but ultimately, there is no pure English unless Black plays 2...Nf6 instead of 2...d5. If Black is playing 2...d5, you have a QGD, Catalan, Neo-Catalan, or Reti.
In another thread on the London System, I had specifically said that I highly discourage anybody below say, 2000, from playing the London, English, or Kings Indian Attack, mainly because most lower rated players that I know that play any of those 3 openings see it as a "system" where they can play the same structure against all responses and that just is not so (like how I showed above that the "automatic" moves do not work vs e5/Nc6/f5/Nf6.)
In this thread, I have shown why the English Opening cannot be used as a catch-all system where you close your eyes and look at Black's position after 1.c4/2.g3/3.Bg2/4.Nc3, like Kosten suggests in an old book on the English Opening of his. The English is extremely trans positional, and you need to know a lot of structures to play it successfully.
Just like how I discourage the London, English, or Kings Indian Attack for players below 2000 playing with the White pieces, I also highly discourage the Modern Defense for those with the Black pieces below 2000 for similar reasons, thinking Black's moves are automatic.
Well bro I totally agree with you. I think I'll looke some more in Marin's book . I have already read Kosten long time ago. I think nearest to what I know best to play other than english is QGD, and do know a lot of stuff to make it work. Will just need to refer some book, to employ it in the tournament.
Thanks for your valuable suggestions. Means a lot.
You can't avoid transposing to another opening after 1...e6.
The most obvious solution is to play 2.Nc3 d5 3.d4 (capturing at d5 right now gives Black the luxury of placing his Bf8 at its optimal square), and make a repertoire based on the exchange QGD variation, which is not difficult to master: You just need to read a middlegame book on the Carlsbad pawn structure.
You'll also need to know something abut the Mikenas, since it is the most "english-like" approach after 1.c4 e6 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.e4. That is because after 3.g3 d5 is pretty harmless (That knight has come to c3 prematurely), and 3.Nf3 d5 is again a QGD where the exchange at d5 is not that dangerous any more, as Black can develop his Bc8 quite easily.
That looks most optimum to me sir. Please do suggest book on carlsbad structure, if you of some. And thank you for your valuable time. It means a lot.
You can't avoid transposing to another opening after 1...e6.
The most obvious solution is to play 2.Nc3 d5 3.d4 (capturing at d5 right now gives Black the luxury of placing his Bf8 at its optimal square), and make a repertoire based on the exchange QGD variation, which is not difficult to master: You just need to read a middlegame book on the Carlsbad pawn structure.
You'll also need to know something abut the Mikenas, since it is the most "english-like" approach after 1.c4 e6 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.e4. That is because after 3.g3 d5 is pretty harmless (That knight has come to c3 prematurely), and 3.Nf3 d5 is again a QGD where the exchange at d5 is not that dangerous any more, as Black can develop his Bc8 quite easily.
That looks most optimum to me sir. Please do suggest book on carlsbad structure, if you of some. And thank you for your valuable time. It means a lot.
It is out of print so you would likely need to find a used copy online. An old book from 1997:
"Middlegame Strategy with the Carlsbad Pawn Structure". It is like a magenta colored book, under 200 pages I believe. Do not recall who wrote it.
You can't avoid transposing to another opening after 1...e6.
The most obvious solution is to play 2.Nc3 d5 3.d4 (capturing at d5 right now gives Black the luxury of placing his Bf8 at its optimal square), and make a repertoire based on the exchange QGD variation, which is not difficult to master: You just need to read a middlegame book on the Carlsbad pawn structure.
You'll also need to know something abut the Mikenas, since it is the most "english-like" approach after 1.c4 e6 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.e4. That is because after 3.g3 d5 is pretty harmless (That knight has come to c3 prematurely), and 3.Nf3 d5 is again a QGD where the exchange at d5 is not that dangerous any more, as Black can develop his Bc8 quite easily.
That looks most optimum to me sir. Please do suggest book on carlsbad structure, if you of some. And thank you for your valuable time. It means a lot.
It is out of print so you would likely need to find a used copy online. An old book from 1997:
"Middlegame Strategy with the Carlsbad Pawn Structure". It is like a magenta colored book, under 200 pages I believe. Do not recall who wrote it.
It's available on scribd, so you can say you can get it for free.
Since the O.P. is close to being a beginner (and who, for some odd reason, wants to play the English), he might have better luck with a video/Fritztrainer.
The volume is called "Know the Terrain Vol. 1 - The Carlsbad Structure" and its authored by IM Sam Collins. It's not cheap, like all Chessbase stuff, but not terribly expensive, either.
E6 D5 against English forces D4 more or less. Any good alternatives please suggest