Ruy lopez - Steintz defense - Nf6? 2 novelties afterwards

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BigHogDogg

Hello, after the ruy lopez steintz defense (e4 - e5 - Nf3 - Nc6 - Bb7 - d6 - d4) a known blunder is Nf6?  The continuation I've been taught to take advantage of this line is

dxe5 - Nxe4

Qd5 - Nc5 Threatening knight and doubling attack on c6 knight, knight retreating to safety

Nd4 - Bd7 Tripling threat - Doubling defense + connecting queen + rook.  If not done bishop will cause loss of tempo, equality will be reached despite loss of pawn.

Nxc6 - Bxc6 - Knight threatens queen

Bxc6+ - bxc6

Qxc6+ - Nd7 to win a pawn, and whites position isn't much better.

However, after playing this against myself, rather then black playing Bd7... I've played a counter-intuitive Qd7.  Rybka actually had a bit of a problem seeing this move, but after it was played it changed the advantage from +0.6 to +0.1.  Now Nxd7 is easily countered by a6, and it allows blacks bishop to stay alive, keeping the pair, and the ability to shake things up.

So the first novelty is Qd7... but I'm unlikely to ever play it.

However, I do still see a differant stratagy that avoids this novelty from being played.  Rather then play 

dxe5 - Nxe4 - Qd5 - Nc5 - Nd4... My novelty is dxe5 - Nxe4 - Qd5 - Nc5 - Ng5 mate threat

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thoughts?  A bit of content on alternate lines in the move list.


onewho_dies
I think you should try it. You'd definately get some people's head to bust.Wink
BigHogDogg
Its unusual this comes up, as the move leading to it is a blunder.  I'm just therorizing that this is a way to better take advantage of it.
onewho_dies
Still you should keep it in mind and try to use similar tactics which I'm sure you already do. I also have to ask when I play you is it like easey peasy or what?
BigHogDogg

For games with you i want to have fun, I get along with you.  Although there is a charm in high tension hyper competative games, it kinda takes away from the social experience.

If you are referring to "do you think playing against me is like beating a 8 year old" type of thing, not really.  You have good, interesting ideas.  Just need to do some tactics puzzles so you can get their execution down a little bit better Wink.


onewho_dies
thanks
erikido23
f5 after q-d5 looks much better for black than what you gave after just a glance at it
erikido23
oh and your analysis of the position that results as a +/= isn't quite correct imop.  While white may have a slight lead in development and an extra pawn black has the bishop pair an open b file and the development lead for white is really illusory(it doesn't develop into any real attack)
BigHogDogg

After f5?, e6! is +/-.  White either gains material and/or a huge development lead.  Black best responds Kg7 else its +-.  I would seriously spend an hour on my post explaining all the reasons: so ask me if you don't understand why for any of these.

Ke7 - Qxf5 - Nf6 (else mate or knight loss) may put whites pawn in such danger it will probably be lost later, but the development lead, the short term pawn gain, and king centralization is +/-

Bxe6? - Qxe6+ - Qe7 - Qxe7 - Bxe7 is a 2 point material gain, and fairly equal standing otherwise, +-.

Nf6 - Bxc6+ - Ke7 (only reasonable move, else lose lots of material) - Qb3! (hard to see, but prevents Bb2) - bxc6 - Nd4 - Qe8 (else lose queen/bishop) - 0-0! (Yes!  developing the rook!).  Black would have various options, but all are +- due to the imminent loss of a pawn, centralized king, and screwed up development.

There are more options, but they are even worse... Ask about any response if you wish. 

To your second post:

Black has lost a pawn, and has a worse pawn structure.  But black has his bishop pair, a slight development lead, and white E pawn is in a peculiar situation.

So i think white in this situation has a half pawn advantage, and I disagree that black is equal in this situation.  A bishop pair and an open B file is not worth 1 pawn like you stated by the way, going off just what you said i would rate that situation as +/-