BlunderThunder67 wrote:
Wdym?
Youll find out.
Ruy Lopez is the best opening, change my mind
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Dec 13, 2025
0
#44
If I am being annoying or you want me to leave the forum I don't mind
Dec 13, 2025
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#45
BlunderThunder67 wrote:
If I am being annoying or you want me to leave the forum I don't mind
I have absolutely no issues with you.
Dec 14, 2025
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#49
BlunderThunder67 skrev:
This is not an indirect argument on the validity of the moves e5 and Nc6, that is not the point. If the moves e5 and Nc6 are objectively mistakes then you basically inferred that every chess engine ever is wrong in saying that those moves are the best moves, imitates saying a billionaire entrepreneur is wrong because you passed business in high school. The argument is that the following move (Bb5) creates a strong position with a lot of advantages for white in the opening that make the game easier to win. If black letting white play any general opening is a mistake than black should just play moves like h5 or a5 which are some of the worst moves in response to e4.
I said that there were 2 possibilities - 1. Mistakes are not counted as openings. 2. Mistakes are counted as openings.
You basically picked one and went guns blazing on how it should not be counted as a mistake, and I agree! But if we are only talking about objectively sound moves, the entire point about the ruy being the objectively best opening falls apart because we are only comparing it to moves that are "objectively the best moves" - so there would not be a winner.
If you want to rephrase the claim from "ruy lopez is the best opening" to "ruy lopez is the theory valid opening that gives the best practical chances" we will have a completely different conversation.
Dec 15, 2025
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#50
I admit I overstepped on that comment but I still don't understand what you are talking about in the mistakes are not counted as openings or mistakes are counted as openings.
30 days ago
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#51
BlunderThunder67 skrev:
I admit I overstepped on that comment but I still don't understand what you are talking about in the mistakes are not counted as openings or mistakes are counted as openings.
Ill try to be more clear with what I mean.
Mistakes are counted as an opening: The best opening is fools mate (1.g4 e6 2.f4 Qh4#) since its mate!
Mistakes are not counted as an opening: There are no best openings since chess is a draw with perfect play. All sound openings are equally good and therefore the entire concept of an objectively best opening falls apart.
If we go by the first, the ruy lopez can only be the objectively best opening if the moves 1...e5 and 2...Nc6 are the two objectively worst moves that black can play - because we are comparing it to absolutely everything.
If we go with the second alternative, the claim would be pointless since all sound openings are equal and no opening can be objectively better than another - we are not taking mistakes from either opponent into account and therefore the games will always end in a draw.
30 days ago
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#52
That makes it more clear, I see your point and I understand it. I believe that the Ruy Lopez is the best opening if they do not make a ridiculous blunder/s, fumble mate or make the wrong moves for the setup before 3. Bb5 which is the main argument. I will not pursue this and attempt to convince you anymore, you may disagree and state it or not.
Wdym?