Ruy Lopez Opening: Morphy Defense, Columbus Variation

Doopliss01

What is the point in playing this (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4) opening? after black plays b5 you'd have to retreat your bishop to the same diagonal you would have put it in the Italian. Only now, it seems to me, black has more space and queen-side pressure.
Thanks in advance for your insights

LouStule
I like to play c3 asap and then the bishop can go to c2 if possible.
UzayAltay

It is annoying click delete the comment instead of EDIT button . 

1) a6- b5 is both strength and weakness , black can use pawns in a queenside attack , white can weak black's pawn structure with a timely a4. 

2) Bishop on c4 is more vulnarable to Bishop on b3. Espacially against a d5 move . 

DeirdreSkye

The whole point is that b5 pawn might become a target and the source of a lot of problems for Black.

 

 

A whole different set of problems for Black occurs if he tries to advance b-pawn.

 

Of course it would be unfair to leave you with the impression that b5 is all problems and nothing good.

b5 indeed gives Black q-side space advantage but he needs to be very careful. 

                                               Kasparov - Ivanchuk, 2002

     Overall , Ruy Lopez is a very rich opening and the early b5 is part of it's complexity.The b5-pawn pawn that gives Black space offers white a target and some interesting alternative ideas and plans.Everything in chess has a cost.

KeSetoKaiba

Thanks for posting the intriguing games once more DeirdreSky. Since my forum regarding the Ruy Lopez a while ago, I have studied this opening a little bit (although I still seldom get it in games). With a little more insight into some of the many complexities this opening has to offer, I can safely say that these posts are instructive to say the least. I especially found it eloquently expressed how you describe moves like an "early b5" as both a "strength" as well as a "weakness". This paradoxically true statement is simply one more reason to enjoy the complexity of the game we all know and love called "Chess". wink.png 

RubenHogenhout
DeirdreSkye schreef:

The whole point is that b5 pawn might become a target and the source of a lot of problems for Black.

 

 

A whole different set of problems for Black occurs if he tries to advance b-pawn.

 

Of course it would be unfair to leave you with the impression that b5 is all problems and nothing good.

b5 indeed gives Black q-side space advantage but he needs to be very careful. 

                                               Kasparov - Ivanchuk, 2002

     Overall , Ruy Lopez is a very rich opening and the early b5 is part of it's complexity.The b5-pawn pawn that gives Black space offers white a target and some interesting alternative ideas and plans.Everything in chess has a cost.

 

It is funny that this Ruy Lopez changed in a Svetnikov variation. 

 

kindaspongey

Possibly of interest:
Starting Out: Ruy Lopez by John Shaw (2003)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627024240/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen53.pdf
The Ruy Lopez Explained by Gary Lane (2005)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140626201436/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen80.pdf
The Ruy Lopez: Move by Move by Neil McDonald (2011)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627022042/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen153.pdf

DeirdreSkye
RubenHogenhout wrote:
DeirdreSkye schreef:

The whole point is that b5 pawn might become a target and the source of a lot of problems for Black.

 

 

A whole different set of problems for Black occurs if he tries to advance b-pawn.

 

Of course it would be unfair to leave you with the impression that b5 is all problems and nothing good.

b5 indeed gives Black q-side space advantage but he needs to be very careful. 

                                               Kasparov - Ivanchuk, 2002

     Overall , Ruy Lopez is a very rich opening and the early b5 is part of it's complexity.The b5-pawn pawn that gives Black space offers white a target and some interesting alternative ideas and plans.Everything in chess has a cost.

 

It is funny that this Ruy Lopez changed in a Svetnikov variation. 

 

Svetnikov variation?

That must be a typo but even if you wanted to type Sveshnikov , I have no idea which is Sveshnikov variation in Ruy Lopez.

BobbyTalparov

Doopliss01 wrote:

What is the point in playing this (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4) opening? after black plays b5 you'd have to retreat your bishop to the same diagonal you would have put it in the Italian. Only now, it seems to me, black has more space and queen-side pressure.
Thanks in advance for your insights

Dereque Kelly has a video that goes over the difference between the Italian and this line of the Ruy Lopez.

ichiro_bloodmoon

BobbyTalparov wrote:

Doopliss01 wrote:

What is the point in playing this (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4) opening? after black plays b5 you'd have to retreat your bishop to the same diagonal you would have put it in the Italian. Only now, it seems to me, black has more space and queen-side pressure.
Thanks in advance for your insights

Dereque Kelly has a video that goes over the difference between the Italian and this line of the Ruy Lopez.

I am a huge fan of Frequencies Kelley. His insights into the openings and how he breaks down what both White and Black wish to accomplish in any giving opening is refreshing as he isnt about any one opening being more favorable do either side. Instead he gets into potential pitfalls for both sides if they aren't careful.

ichiro_bloodmoon

BobbyTalparov wrote:

Doopliss01 wrote:

What is the point in playing this (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4) opening? after black plays b5 you'd have to retreat your bishop to the same diagonal you would have put it in the Italian. Only now, it seems to me, black has more space and queen-side pressure.
Thanks in advance for your insights

Dereque Kelly has a video that goes over the difference between the Italian and this line of the Ruy Lopez.

Dereque*

ichiro_bloodmoon

BobbyTalparov wrote:

Doopliss01 wrote:

What is the point in playing this (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4) opening? after black plays b5 you'd have to retreat your bishop to the same diagonal you would have put it in the Italian. Only now, it seems to me, black has more space and queen-side pressure.
Thanks in advance for your insights

Dereque Kelly has a video that goes over the difference between the Italian and this line of the Ruy Lopez.

Believe it or not the Ruy Lopez has a very rich history and does pretty well for White with 1E4 openings.

blueemu

As pointed out above, the ... b5 move has both pluses and minuses. As well as presenting a target for White's a4 move, it weakens the c6 square and the d5-a8 diagonal... allowing tactics like this:

 

poucin
blueemu a écrit :

As pointed out above, the ... b5 move has both pluses and minuses. As well as presenting a target for White's a4 move, it weakens the c6 square and the d5-a8 diagonal... allowing tactics like this:

 

That is why, if black wants to be greedy, he/she can play the same variation without b5 :

This is a good line to compare with the differences which can be created with playing b5 or not.
Very tactical though, but it is another point instead of the strategical points given above.

 

Doopliss01

Thanks everyone! This helped a lot

ichiro_bloodmoon

blueemu wrote:

As pointed out above, the ... b5 move has both pluses and minuses. As well as presenting a target for White's a4 move, it weakens the c6 square and the d5-a8 diagonal... allowing tactics like this:

 

And white if all goes accordingly gets two pieces and a pawn as compensation for his Bishop!!