Scotch: Steinitz varation, would you dare to play it?

The scotch steinitz variation.
What do you think of it as black/white?
I quite like playing against it as white, but I wouldn't dare to play it as black.

I play it as black. I used to get my butt kicked in the Scotch, this is much better for me result-wise.

I've played it once online here and once at my club.
Both won without trouble.

But it is playable with accurate play!

Well, it's not all that uncommon.

I have over 700 games in my DB.

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                        OPENING REPORT
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Database: Joe's Big Base (1,616,456 games)
Report:  1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Qh4 (732 games)
ECO: C45e [Scotch: Steinitz Variation]
Generated by Scid 4.0, 2010.11.23


1. STATISTICS AND HISTORY
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1.1  Statistics

                   Games     1-0     =-=     0-1    Score
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 All report games    732     308     144     280    51.9%
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just dare! it's nothing wrt Bongcloud

I dont agree with that. I find much more freedom.

It has been mentioned before in these forums, that what this line needs is to be tested at the highest levels. This hasn't happened since Steinitz and Chigorin played (and won) with this. I suspect the only thing wrong here is that it's badly out of fashion.

Show me games where it has been refuted by and against top players, and I might change my mind.

The Steinitz Variation is my only variation I use as black against the Scotch. I grab a pawn and white has to fight to survive the endgame. 

My DB shows losses by Shvesnikov (2585), Adorjan (2530), Belikov (2500).

.  All of them were rated higher than black

My point is, Steinitz and Chigorin were top echelon players, and they played this with success. The reason you don't find high rated games is (partly) due to the fact that the strongest players to ever play this, did not have ratings.

The highest rated games (both sides) using this opening is probably Blackburne Steinitz (0-3) or Mieses-Chigorin (1 draw).

I'd like to see this tested at 2700+ level. Come on, Nakmura, you know you want to :)

Nigel Davies recommends Nb5. But I guess he is a patzer :p?

I almost always play the Steinitz variation against the Scotch. With accurate play it may be that the White is slightly better but it's not like you will be wiped off the board or anything. Of course, there are many White players who think that they should somehow refute this instantly, which is a very useful assumption... for the other side.

The problem with openings like that is that white is probably prepared.

Seldom, in my experience.

Then they are silly to not be :p. It is not like the steinitz variation is an obscure variation of the scotch. You should know a few sharp lines if you play an opening.

It is a fairly obscure variation. With players like below 1600, you will sometimes see even replies like 5. Bd3 in blitz games lol. But that is not the point, the point is I think the variation is viable against correct play.

Well in the grandscheme of variations it's obscure. But its played enough (if you play the scotch) that you should be prepared.

Well people play weird stuff. I also get quite often when playing the scotch this:

Also when playing philidor I sometimes get that pawn for free :p.
And when playing philidor sometimes I get this:

Funny how some players make the game into the opening of their desire and then play such strange moves.

So where does your analysis comes from? And yes it's a serious question. I'd like to see where your analysis comes from.

The only chesspub thread I could find was this one.

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1046164534/4

In this thread it was not necessarily clear on white acheiving an advantage.  In fact it is mentioned as a critical line in the Scotch in which black takes a lot of risks for a pawn advantage.

My database has 372 games with 5.Nb5, and it scores slightly better than 5.Nc3 even though 5.Nc3 is more popular. I am not saying that it is better or worse than 5.Nc3 but it is a completely legitimate line. I had it played against me by an NM once.

Well, I am speaking from the Black's point of view. I don't have to face the Steinitz variation as White because I play 4.Bc4 where I think it's safe to say that 4....Qh5 is not a good reply... although I got it once in a bullet game...