Sicilian defense, Sheveningen with Najdorf move order.

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zingsanity007

One of the notable players to play the Sheveningen via the Najdorf move order is Garry Kasparov. He reasoned that by playing e7-e6 immediately after a7-a6 will leave no weaknesses in black's center, unlike e7-e5. He also reasoned that by playing it via the Najdorf move order black will avoid the Keres attack. But by playing the Najdorf move a7-a6, he guards the g4 square for a crucial extra tempo. As shown in the second diagram, black plays the Sheveningen via the Najdorf move order.

As you can see, black's d6 pawn is not backwards and the d5 square is not a weak square. I used to play the "classical" Sheveningen myself, but the Keres attack is an aggressive line. As a result, I play the Sheveningen via the Najdorf move order. A good book on the Sheveningen with the Najdorf move order is "Play the Najdorf: Sheveningen style" by John Emms.
yusuf_prasojo

6.Bc4 is weak in the Najdorf. 6.Be3 is probably the strongest but my choice is 6.Be2, which I think is theoretically better. And against the Scheveningen (6...e6) 7.Be3 is imo the best continuation. So when will you apply the Dragodorf (...g6) against what I think is the best WT setup against the Najdorf/Scheveningen structure?

 

Ooops sorry, my mistake. So this is not about achieving Dragon position but Scheveningen. Okay, Scheveningen is good for grandmasters, especially if you are afraid your weaker opponent has prepared something in other variations of Sicilian. But without superior skill, playing the Scheveningen is even worse than playing the Sicilian in the first place.
BTW, ...Qc7 is imo mandatory in the Scheveningen. This is to control e5 square and the open c-file. The Scheveningen is good but BL should be able to select very few good moves to not put himself in trouble. I left the Scheveningen because I cannot do it in rapid games.
Conquistador

When I have faced this, my favorite line has been

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nc6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Bc4 e6 7.Bb3 followed by 8.f4 and 9.f5 putting black under immense pressure early, and it has been played by Fischer if I remember correctly.

Dimitrije_Mandic

Yeah, Fischer liked that one, and I do too. Yet you shouldn't forget about the 7. g4 in the Be3 Scheveningen. That's a Delayed Keres Attack, and then we can talk about the Perenyi Gambit too! And THAT is a hundred percent sea of sharpness and tactical ludacris! Also, the Bg5 variation classifies as the Najdorf Old Main Line (White plays f4 next), and when Bc4 is played alongside Be3, assuming that Black plays the Scheveningen-more-or-less-thematic Nc6, we arrive at the Velimirovic Attack! And that's another one you wouldn't really like to mess with (if you were Black, of course)!

Cerdog

Maybe I'm missing something here, but why does a6 prevent g4? I don't see why White can't just wait another move to play it, he's not blocking the pawn or anything.

Cutebold

6.Bc4 against the Najdorf, the Fischer-Sozin Attack, is pretty neat. I used to play it a lot, and enjoyed great success at the club level with it (until people got too used to it, that is!). I don't think that 6.Bc4 is weak at all.

Dimitrije_Mandic
Wait, I say, wait a sec! The Fischer-Sozin is the variation against the Classical Sicilian, isn't it? If Black plays the Najdorf-ish b5 on the seventh move (of the Bc4 Najdorf), then White plays 0-0, Qf3, Qg3 (attacking the undefended g7-pawn, so Black castles) and Bh6, threatening mate in one! As far as I know, that differs from the Fischer-Sozin, although it does include the thematic f4 and f5 (with Rad1) later.
yusuf_prasojo
Conquiscador wrote:

When I have faced this, my favorite line has been

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nc6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Bc4 e6 7.Bb3 followed by 8.f4 and 9.f5 putting black under immense pressure early, and it has been played by Fischer if I remember correctly.


No, you don't have time for 8.f4 and 9.f5. The king is still in the center and 7...b5 is faster to attack the queenside. If you want to castle kingside, there is ...Bb7 following ...b5.

Cratercat

Can anyone familiar with this variation tell me whether black castles kingside when white castles queenside with an English attack pawnstorm? Seems to me that in many of the games in the database show black's king remaining in the center, or in some situations even castling queenside as well despite not always having pawn coverage. 

yusuf_prasojo
Gonnosuke wrote:
yusuf_prasojo wrote:

6.Be3 is probably the strongest but my choice is 6.Be2, which I think is theoretically better


What's the distinction between "strongest" and "theoretically better" in this statement?

Chess is "theoretically" a draw. Any theoretically best defense is a defense that will lead to 100% draw. Often we are not looking for a draw but we are looking for positions that will give us higher probability of winning (more attacking chance, more initiative, lots of space, etc.) which I consider a "strong" position. This is of course subjective because it depends on the level of play.

To make things less subjective, we may want to define an "average level of play", "average type of game", etc.

It's like 1.e4 and 1.d4. I consider 1.e4 as "stronger" than 1.d4 but 1.d4 is "theoretically better".

That kind of statement/terminology may not be accepted universally. But that's my point.

yusuf_prasojo
Cerdog wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something here, but why does a6 prevent g4? I don't see why White can't just wait another move to play it, he's not blocking the pawn or anything.


First, you have to remember the concept of tempo. Many Sicilian games are opposite-side of attack, or race of attack. Just like chess in general, g4 on 6th move will be different than g4 on 7th or 8th move. Here, the line (and game) will completely be different.

In Scheveningen, e6 is done on 5th move. This e6-pawn blocks the c8-bishop's control on g4-square. This allows White to do the scarry Keres Attack (6.g4 often folowed by h4) when Black is not yet ready to defend or counter-attack. With 5...a6 White cannot do 6.g4 before adding more control on g4-square with 6.f3 or 6.Be2 (6.h3 is weak because the pawn is needed for the attack). But then g4 will lost its strength because BL is better prepared than before.

yusuf_prasojo
Gonnosuke wrote:

Personally, I prefer to reach the English Attack via 6.f3 as it avoids Kasparov's annoying 6...Ng4 variation.  


Yes I love to play 6...Ng4. It is imo one of the strongest line in the Najdorf. Just like the Najdorf in general, BL has to memorize many variations. Especially the 6...Ng4, I can play many variations from this position like machine. This is where memorizing lines becomes crucial, especially when the best move is not natural.

Personally I prefer 6.Be2 than 6.f3. With f3 you have to castle queenside if you want to do the (Perenyi) attack, and BL get his counter attack relatively quickly. With 6.Be2 you can do kingside attack with 0-0 or 0-0-0, you can attack in the center (with f4/g4) or in the wing (with g4/h4) and BL has to defend and get the counter attack only after White fails his attack. I like this feeling of controlling the game.

Cerdog
yusuf_prasojo wrote:
Cerdog wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something here, but why does a6 prevent g4? I don't see why White can't just wait another move to play it, he's not blocking the pawn or anything.


First, you have to remember the concept of tempo. Many Sicilian games are opposite-side of attack, or race of attack. Just like chess in general, g4 on 6th move will be different than g4 on 7th or 8th move. Here, the line (and game) will completely be different.

In Scheveningen, e6 is done on 5th move. This e6-pawn blocks the c8-bishop's control on g4-square. This allows White to do the scarry Keres Attack (6.g4 often folowed by h4) when Black is not yet ready to defend or counter-attack. With 5...a6 White cannot do 6.g4 before adding more control on g4-square with 6.f3 or 6.Be2 (6.h3 is weak because the pawn is needed for the attack). But then g4 will lost its strength because BL is better prepared than before.


I get this up until the last sentence. Why is g4 inherently weaker once a6 has been played? Surely if black plays e6 anyway the move is still good.

yusuf_prasojo
Cerdog wrote:

Why is g4 inherently weaker once a6 has been played? Surely if black plays e6 anyway the move is still good.


Actually there's nothing wrong. The term "weaker" is infact subjective. We are here comparing what is called Keres Attack with other kinds of English Attack (e.g. Perenyi Attack). If you have ever played the BL side with those attacks, you may hate the Keres Attack, which is more dangerous because your pieces are not yet well developped. But again, you may find that 7.g4 or 8.g4 or 9.g4 is still playable, and is also a common line.

Dimitrije_Mandic
Oh, and my mistake, the Bc4 Najdorf is infact called the Fischer-Sozin, but I managed to mix it up with the Sozin of the Classical Variation.
Dimitrije_Mandic

Also, if you choose the Amsterdam Variation of the Najdorf (6. f4), and your opponent plays 6... e6 instead of 6... e5, then you can transpose to the Tal Variation!

Cutebold
Dimitrije_Mandic wrote:
Oh, and my mistake, the Bc4 Najdorf is infact called the Fischer-Sozin, but I managed to mix it up with the Sozin of the Classical Variation.

Yeah, I had to double check it to make sure. When I cracked open my copy of MCO I almost facepalmed because I was 99% sure that it /was/ the Fischer-Sozin, since that's the way my mentor presented it to me. Kind of confusing, because they're somewhat similar!