Sicilian Dragon vs Najdorf - Which is better?

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Avatar of FizzyBand
Deranged wrote:
FizzyBand wrote:
rishabh11great wrote:
Deranged wrote:

I've been playing the Najdorf for the past year and a half, and I often find myself in situations around the early middlegame (move 12 ish) where the white pawn storm is hitting me faster than I can strike back on the queenside, and I don't handle it too well

Then again, I've heard that the dragon is even worse than the Najdorf in terms of facing that dreaded pawn storm and having to defend perfectly if you want to survive. So I'd steer well clear of that.

"I dont believe in Dragons"- One of the greatest players of all time - Robert James Fischer

Wanna back that up with some variations

Yeah this variation is the most challenging one imo:

 

I was referencing the guy who quoted RJF.

I’d advise you, as someone who plays the White side of your Najdorf line quite a bit, that you would do better keeping your king in the center for a bit. I would finish development with Nbd7, b5, and Bb7 before castling (or maybe not, as a pawn storm like the one you showed could be possible). Sometimes Black never castles in The Najdorf, and I think you should look into some no castling lines.

Avatar of Deranged
FizzyBand wrote:
Deranged wrote:
FizzyBand wrote:
rishabh11great wrote:
Deranged wrote:

I've been playing the Najdorf for the past year and a half, and I often find myself in situations around the early middlegame (move 12 ish) where the white pawn storm is hitting me faster than I can strike back on the queenside, and I don't handle it too well

Then again, I've heard that the dragon is even worse than the Najdorf in terms of facing that dreaded pawn storm and having to defend perfectly if you want to survive. So I'd steer well clear of that.

"I dont believe in Dragons"- One of the greatest players of all time - Robert James Fischer

Wanna back that up with some variations

Yeah this variation is the most challenging one imo:

 

I was referencing the guy who quoted RJF.

I’d advise you, as someone who plays the White side of your Najdorf line quite a bit, that you would do better keeping your king in the center for a bit. I would finish development with Nbd7, b5, and Bb7 before castling (or maybe not, as a pawn storm like the one you showed could be possible). Sometimes Black never castles in The Najdorf, and I think you should look into some no castling lines.

Oh sorry, I misread your comment.

Hmm that's an interesting option. I've never really considered leaving my king in the centre. But I guess it makes sense, once white commits to an early kingside pawn storm.

Thanks for the advice.

Avatar of Sneakiest_Of_Snakes
krazeechess wrote:

the problem with accelerated dragon is they can play yugoslav and you are doomed, thats why you play the hyper accelerated dragon, which crushes the yugoslav

Actually, Yugoslav is not very good for White as an early d5 push (as you didn't play d6) gives black the advantage. The reason why most people don't play advanced though is because of the annoying Maroczy Bind variation.

Avatar of tlay80
krazeechess wrote:

the problem with accelerated dragon is they can play yugoslav and you are doomed, thats why you play the hyper accelerated dragon, which crushes the yugoslav

Huh? If White is aiming for a Yugoslav setup, then the hyperaccelerated dragon (2 ... g6) simply transposes to the accelerated dragon, no? As far as I’m aware, the only difference between them is some sidelines they avoid and allow (most notably the Rossolimo). What’s the difference you had in mind? 

And the problem with both is the Maroczy Bind. 

Avatar of tlay80
Sneakiest_Of_Snakes wrote:
krazeechess wrote:

the problem with accelerated dragon is they can play yugoslav and you are doomed, thats why you play the hyper accelerated dragon, which crushes the yugoslav

Actually, Yugoslav is not very good for White as an early d5 push (as you didn't play d6) gives black the advantage.

Yes, but not against Yugoslav players who include Bc4 in their setup, which prevents d5 anyway, and which still gives White a lot of attacking chances.  Black still has some ways to keep the game independent in those lines, but they don't make as big a difference as they do in the 9. 0-0-0 lines.

Avatar of Oliver_Prescott

I personally prefer the Najdorf, with this variation as black.

It's a very solid counter-attack, and I prefer it over any dragon variations.

Avatar of ppandachess

That's a big question, but it's riskier to play the Dragon (if you play it as your only defense) because Black normally has less options than in the Najdorf, so your opponent can prepare more easily against you

Avatar of pfren
Oliver_Prescott έγραψε:

I personally prefer the Najdorf, with this variation as black.

It's a very solid counter-attack, and I prefer it over any dragon variations.

 

This particular variation should actually be labelled as dubious, and avoided.

 

Black risks falling into a very passive position where white dictates the play. Fortunately for him he has a better option at move 12, and an even better one as early as move 8.

 

 

Avatar of tlay80

I assume the move you prefer at move 8 is h5. What’s the improvement at move 12?

Avatar of 2Kd21-0

Probably The Najdorf as black because if your opponent plays The Yugoslav attack which is below, than your life just becomes a heck of a lot more difficult as black because you have to remember a lot moves and theory.


 

Avatar of pfren
tlay80 έγραψε:

I assume the move you prefer at move 8 is h5. What’s the improvement at move 12?

 

1. Yes, of course- 8...h5! is the best way to meet the English attack.

2. He is also more or less OK after 12.g5 Nh5, but he has to be very careful - the position is a pithole.

A very recent game I played:

 

- 14...f5 is IMO already a bit inaccurate. Black may win a pawn, but he needs to spent many moves to get that h5 knight back to life. 14...f6 looks like a better move.

- 22.Rge1! is neither a new move, nor the most common one, but it makes most sense to me. White's aim should be to break some way this d6-e5-f4 chain, so a rook targetting the e5 pawn makes a lot of sense- and in any case I find it hard to spot a function for it on the g-file anymore.

-24...bxa4 is not new, but i think it's a mistake as it allows white to achieve his strategical plan without hindrance. I am quite suprised that the very natural and strong 25.c4! I have played is a novelty.

From that point, Black was in trouble, and playing very fast made things even worse.

Avatar of CrockPotLion

By any objective definition... win ratio, playability, popularity etc. najdorf slays dragon. Which a majority play because of the name. And as for Eng. Attack? A d6 scheveningen structure gives better counterplay, according to GM opinion. A d5 set up should be good pickings, if White knows the best line. And the kan variation avoids the Eng, Attack with ease. Despite what some rude, aggressive people might claim.

Avatar of karpoviantal

Najdorf is sounder and is preferred by top players, but the ideas in the Sicilian Dragon are easy to understand, and the attacking strategy is quite clear. The Najdorf is tactically complex and sometimes even strategically complex, meanwhile the Dragon just results in both sides going for all-out attacks. I am studying the Najdorf, but the Dragon is one of my old favourites.

Avatar of technical_knockout

play the uber-accelerated dragon: 1.g3! 😆

Avatar of sndeww
silverwildflower8 wrote:
ChesswithNickolay wrote:

Go for the Taimanov.

Whag about the classical?

Velimorovic attack go brr

Avatar of technical_knockout

play the hyper-accelerated dragon.

Avatar of GeorgeWyhv14

Najdorf because the key ideas are easier.

Avatar of SwimmerBill
B1ZMARK wrote:
silverwildflower8 wrote:
ChesswithNickolay wrote:

Go for the Taimanov.

Whag about the classical?

Velimorovic attack go brr

This gives chances for both sides. IMO white's attack plays itself and is dangerous and black needs to know stuff and not 'blink' but, if so, black is fine with, e.g., the a6 Qc7 Na5 line.

Avatar of ConfusedGhoul

I don't understand, are you suggesting 6. Bc4 against the Classical? 6... Qb6 is good for Black, the Knight on d4 is quite awkward and if it retreats to b3 then the Bc4 is misplaced

Avatar of DrSpudnik

Najdorf makes me struggle with plans from the early opening. The only thing I plan with the Dragon is how to charge up the Kingside and kill it.