Sokolsky (Polish) 1. b4 - d5

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SV_De_Kentering

What is the best respons at d5 as the first move for black?

White-phosphorus

In this position I like        2...........Qd6   3.a3...e5 =

eaglex

looks interesting

rooperi

I often play 1 b4. Hey, I'm allowed, I'm not a GM or anything...

1... d5 is defenitely the response that gives me the most problems.

Zerrogi

I play 1. b4 from time to time, and Black has a multitude of choices to go by.  Just occupy the center, thats a good rule to by when facing the Polish.

anon166

1b4.d5.2Bb2.e6.3e3.Nf6.4b5.c5.5Nf3.Be7.6c4.O-O.7Be2.Nbd7.8d4.dc4.9Nbd2.c3.10Bc3.Nd5.11Bb2-is-about-equal.1b4-is-playable,but-i-prefer-black.

AWARDCHESS
Database: My Chess Games     White   Black
movegameswhite wins / draw / black wins
1...e5 257
49.8% 10.9% 39.3%
1...d5 92
58.7%   37%
1...Nf6 52
42.3% 15.4% 42.3%
1...e6 31
67.7%   29%
1...b5 13
76.9% 15.4%  
1...b6 12
75%   25%
1...Nc6 10
100%    
1...a5 9
77.8% 22.2%  
1...g6 8
50%   50%
1...c6 7
28.6% 14.3% 57.1%
1...f5 6
50% 16.7% 33.3%
1...d6 5
80%   20%
1...a6 4
  25% 75%
1...f6 3
66.7% 33.3%  
1...c5 1  AWARDCHESS - bobbo52 (2008)
1...g5 1  AWARDCHESS - malko (2008)
1...h5 1  AWARDCHESS - Ziena78 (2008)
1...h6 1  AWARDCHESS - doingme (2008)
1...Na6 1  AWARDCHESS - mcollier (2008)


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AWARDCHESS

1.b4 is not bad, for me...

SV_De_Kentering

Loek van Wely, The Netherlands number two, told me that there are no bad openings for any colour, only less-common-openings. The benefit of Sokolsky is that less people know this kind of opening. You can surprise your opponent and you will have a ''real chess game'' from the beginning. So, the best player will win in the end.

kerritorres

I'll chose 1 b4 as the first move for black. Im glad I found this chess site. It's really helpful. - habanos

happyfanatic
ouachita wrote:

black has scored 60-70% with these. again, b4 is nonsense.


I think that if you are going to make grandiose statements like this, you need to back up your statistics with, well, more statistics.  For example, what database you got the statistics from, the sample size, whether or not you restricted your statistics to players above a certain rating, the average difference in rating between the 1.b4 player and his opponent, etc. 

AWARDCHESS

He just made some bold assumptions!

But where are the Facts?

AWARDCHESS
Database: Master Games
movegameswhite wins / draw / black wins
1...e5 1,210
38.8% 17.2% 44%
1...d5 742
35.8% 24% 40.2%
1...Nf6 432
29.6% 31% 39.4%
1...c6 246
43.9% 21.1% 35%
1...e6 182
39.6% 27.5% 33%
1...a5 146
49.3% 20.5% 30.1%
1...f5 38
63.2% 15.8% 21.1%
1...d6 28
14.3% 42.9% 42.9%
1...c5 16
37.5%   62.5%
1...b6 12
50% 16.7% 33.3%
1...g6 10
  20% 80%
1...a6 8
75%   25%
1...b5 4
50%   50%
1...f6 2
100%    
1...Nc6 2
100%    


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goldendog

It's hard enough to relegate an opening to museum status much less to the refuted category.

Openings like the Scotch and Four Knights were considered quaint relics, insufficient for any GM going for a win as white. That was the modern view, in the 1960s. Same for the Bishop's opening. Scandinavian was a total loser for black and have fun going for a draw.

The weaker the player and his competition the less important the soundness of the opening is anyway.

southpawsam

Bxb4 is the best response, although it trades a knight pawn for a center pawn, it gives Black easy development.

rooperi
southpawsam wrote:

Bxb4 is the best response, although it trades a knight pawn for a center pawn, it gives Black easy development.


I assume you mean after 1 b4 e5 2 Bb2?

Well, If you're into databases, check out the stats for

1 b4 e5

2 Bb2 Bxb4

3 f5?!

I know the Chess Assistant Huge Database had about 120 games with this, scoring almost 80% for White. (about 5 years ago) the idea being:

happyfanatic

Rooperi your line looks interesting, but I'm a little apprehensive about it.  What if 3. ...d6 instead of ...exf4?   I've looked at this line before with Fritz, and Fritz's evaluation put it at something like -1.2 in black's favor, so I have some misgivings about it.  But at the same time I've generally avoided and disliked the main line with 3. Bxe5 Nf6 4. c4 since white has to be on the defensive and play very accurately to survive it.   

rooperi
happyfanatic wrote:

Rooperi your line looks interesting, but I'm a little apprehensive about it.  What if 3. ...d6 instead of ...exf4?   I've looked at this line before with Fritz, and Fritz's evaluation put it at something like -1.2 in black's favor, so I have some misgivings about it.  But at the same time I've generally avoided and disliked the main line with 3. Bxe5 Nf6 4. c4 since white has to be on the defensive and play very accurately to survive it.   


Well, there is a neat little trap for Black (not too serious, please don't criticize too harshly :)

happyfanatic

*Ahem* -------->  3. ...d6  <------     not 3. ..Bd6

KnightShifter

The most common way to deal with 1...d5 is 2.Bb2. If they fianchetto on their queenside then b5 is necessary. "Play 1.b5!" is a fantastic book; I believe it is also relatively cheap.

A cool game. I'm certain I messed up the move order in the opening (I'm too lazy sorry!)