stonewall attack

I have been under the impression that the stonewall attack was a little too

strong and closed for amateurs to defend well against - so that playing it

 may not be the best training.

Am I wrong/right for having a slight bias/suspicion against the talent of stonewall players?

I'm afraid I cannot fully grasp what you are trying to say. Anyway...

The stonewall is a good system to defend solidly against certain white setups. But it can't be used as a universal attacking formation. And, at least for my taste, it is rather too one-dimensional and inflexible. If Black plays some queen's indian formation, keeping the d-pawn back so white misses the e5 outpost, or a king's indian formation with a quick ...e7-e5 then the whole white setup is harmless.

And yes, amateurs may play the opening against unsophisticated opposition with remarkable results. On GM chess, the stonewall attack hardly appears once in a blue moon.

Thank you. This is exactly what I thought and was looking to confirm.

Stonewall is certainly not something any begginer should start from.Any one that does,  will regret it sooner or later.

There are a lot need to be learned on 1.e4 e5 and 1.d4 d5(with both colors of course) , a lot no one affords not to learn.Unfortunately , very few  realise that.

I hate facing it in blitz when it's clear this is the only thing the person ever plays.  Very boring... but can be good for blitz because there's not too much variation (if any) to what you'll be doing the whole game...

Well, I shouldn't pick on the stonewall... it's annoying when any player does the same thing over and over in a series of blitz.  Part of the fun is trying out different openings (or variations at least).

It really depends. The Stonewall can be good against certain set ups. If there is really no need to play it, you might prefer a Leningrad or a classical since these are more aggressive and flexible. 

I disagree about the "more aggressive"(I think Stonewall is the most aggressive from the Dutch family) but certainly they are more flexible.

Stonewall attack is easily refuted. On blacks second move 2...b~b4 after white plays the tell tale 2~pk3. There is many others like 2~p~kb4 followed  n~kb3,or p~qb4 which will rattle the opponent!!!!!

i try playing the dutch trying to avoid  the stonewall because the backward e pawn makes things awkward mutch like the bennoni

Stonewall attack easily refuted???One of the greatest players and teachers ever appeared , Mikhail Botvinnik , played Stonewall regularly.You probably know something he didn't.

Stonewall is not possible to be refuted, it is just not possible to be played against anything  as many do.

Botvinnik played stonewall regularly??? Maybe it was a variation on the colle system you are getting mixed up with.It looks  the same but it is not!!!!

Yes I do "getting mixed up" a lot.Just recently learned that Ruy Lopez is not a shοe brand like Timberland.

Interested in pfren's comment.  I HATE facing ...d6 setups - what to do with the Nf3?  Been thinking about this...

A naive assumption many do.

Marshall attack in Ruy Lopez is played by black.

Breaking your wall with a timely ...e5 is equally annoying.

However, white's position drawbacks are best illustrated applying a Queen's Indian setup. If white meets such a plan when using the Colle, he can always switch to "plan B" and play c2-c4 at some time, when he has a pretty regular Queen's Indian with e2-e3. On the Stonewall, there is no plan B: white's position is just too inflexible to allow different setups.

Stonewall attack is not played because white has so much better choices and because the extra tempo more hurts than do any good.Against any non ...d5 formation Stonewall seems silly and is simply ineffective.So white starts with 1.d4 , after 1...Nf6 his Stonewall dreams are over in most of the cases.White has to start with 1.f4 which is hardly a good choice in comparison with 1.e4 and 1.d4 and again , any unprepared opponent can only employ a king's Indian defense set up and Stonewall is over.

  Botvinnik with Black played it under certain conditions.In other cases he played Leningrad Dutch and Classical Dutch.  

Paulsen, that looks like a weak response to the Stonewall stuff.  I play a lot of Stonewall, and I would love for you to let me gain tempos on setting up the pawns with your bishop moves.  The bishop belongs on d6, e7, or (perhaps optimally) on g7. 

(EDIT) - Now I see you are talking about ...Bf5 - apologies.  This is still nothing to fear.  e3, Bd3...if you trade, White brings the queen to the center to support his pawns.  I used to hate ...Bf5, but it is nothing to fear.  

Pfren, against that ...e5 stuff, I generally play fxe, followed by d5.  This doesn't work in every position, but I used to hate facing the ...e5 stuff.  It doesn't scare me anymore.  

But the ...d6 stuff.  That is a serious thing for a Bird player to consider.  Perhaps a more constrained approach, looking for c3-c4 or e3-e4.  

I will admit that ...d6 is a bit annoying. 

I normally use the queen to support the e4-push.