Tarrasch and Pseudo-Tarrasch Defence

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KevinOSh

I played an OTB friendly game last night that opened like this:

I thought I was playing the Tarrasch but the opening explorer says it is the Pseudo-Tarrasch. What are the differences?

Nerwal

Here after 5. Nc3 it's already a normal 4. e3 Tarrasch. The main difference of 4. e3 lines is that in some of them it's White who gets the isolated queen's pawn, not Black (eg. 5... dxc4 6. Bxc4 cxd4 7. exd4 - after 6... a6 we're in the old main line of the Queen's Gambit Accepted). Now remains the question of 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 c5 vs 3. Nc3 c5. One point is that the Henning-Schara 4. cxd5 cxd4 isn't really playable against 3. Nf3. Another is that White can postpone Nc3 after 4. cxd5 exd5, like with 5. Bg5!? Be7 6. Bxe7 Nxe7 7. dxc5 and Black does not have a dynamic position.

AunTheKnight
Nerwal wrote:

Here after 5. Nc3 it's already a normal 4. e3 Tarrasch. The main difference of 4. e3 lines is that in some of them it's White who gets the isolated queen's pawn, not Black (eg. 5... dxc4 6. Bxc4 cxd4 7. exd4 - after 6... a6 we're in the old main line of the Queen's Gambit Accepted). Now remains the question of 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 c5 vs 3. Nc3 c5. One point is that the Henning-Schara 4. cxd5 cxd4 isn't really playable against 3. Nf3. Another is that White can postpone Nc3 after 4. cxd5 exd5, like with 5. Bg5!? Be7 6. Bxe7 Nxe7 7. dxc5 and Black does not have a dynamic position.

Interesting!

yetanotheraoc

The difference is "Tarrasch" is a real opening name, and "Pseudo-Tarrasch" is not a real opening name. The opening you played is the Tarrasch, just as you thought.

KevinOSh

At the position after 3...c5 on lichess opening explorer:

"D30 Queen's Gambit Declined: Tarrasch Defense, Pseudo-Tarrasch"

and chess.com opening explorer gives it the shorter name

"Queen's Gambit Declined: Pseudo-Tarrasch Defense"

And then by move 5 this changes to "Tarrasch 4.e3 Nf6 5.Nf3" (even though it was a different move order)

yetanotheraoc

There's no Pseudo-Tarrasch, that's just a pseudo-name given by someone with a database and too much time on their hands, then copied from the same source by both lichess and chess.com, and probably others. There are so many bogus names in the opening explorers, it's not worth worrying about.

KevinOSh

I'm not worried just curious. The names are based on the Encyclopedia of Chess Openings.

https://www.chessjournal.com/eco/

There is

D30 Pseudo-Tarrasch, QGD d4 d5 c4 e6 Nf3 c5

and also

D50 Pseudo-Tarrasch Variation, QGD d4 d5 c4 e6 Nc3 Nf6 Bg5 c5 cxd5

 

yetanotheraoc

The ECO is language-less, it gives the codes (D30) but does not name the openings. In any case the names might differ by language or country. Names are conventional, but Pseudo-Tarrasch is not one of the conventional names, it's just a mistake. I actually do know the individual who gave this wrong name Pseudo-Tarrasch, but I am purposely not naming this person because it is not important for the discussion. What's important is to know that just because some site or app on the internet says the name of D30 is Pseudo-Tarrasch, doesn't make it so. Even if *all* sites and apps on the internet say that, doesn't make it so, especially if they all derive from the same mistaken source.

KevinOSh

Why do you say it is a mistake? There are many openings that have pseudo variants:

A00 Pseudo-Diemer Gambit, Dunst Nc3 d5 e4 dxe4 f3 exf3 Qxf3
D06 Pseudo-Slav, QGD d4 d5 c4 Bf5 Nc3 e6 Nf3 c6
D06 Pseudo-Chigorin, QGD d4 d5 c4 Bf5 Nc3 e6 Nf3 Nc6
D30 Pseudo-Meran; Semi-Slav, QGD d4 d5 c4 e6 Nf3 Nf6 e3 c6
D02 Pseudo-Catalan d4 d5 Nf3 Nf6 g3
A40 Pseudo-Saemisch d4 g6 c4 Bg7 e4 d6 Be3 Nf6 f3
A57 Pseudo-Saemisch, Benko Gambit d4 Nf6 c4 c5 d5 b5 f3
A46 Pseudo-Benko Gambit d4 Nf6 Nf3 c5 d5 b5
A48 Pseudo-King’s Indian Variation; A48 d4 Nf6 Nf3 g6
C88 Pseudo-Marshall Var, Ruy Lopez e4 e5 Nf3 Nc6 Bb5 a6 Ba4 Nf6 O-O Be7 Re1 b5 Bb3 Bb7 c3 d5 exd5 Nxd5 Nxe5 Nxe5
B06 Pseudo-Austrian Attack e4 g6 d4 Bg7 Nc3 d6 f4
B00 Pseudo-Spanish Variation e4 Nc6 Bb5

 

Do you disagree with some/all of these other pseudo classifications?

What characteristic makes an opening "pseudo"?

SwimmerBill
Nerwal wrote:

....... Another is that White can postpone Nc3 after 4. cxd5 exd5, like with 5. Bg5!? Be7 6. Bxe7 Nxe7 7. dxc5 and Black does not have a dynamic position.

 Agree- but I'll add that (IMO) black also gets easy equality in the lines after whites Nf3&Bg5. -Bill

yetanotheraoc

"Do you disagree with some/all of these other pseudo classifications?"

I disagree with all of them.

tygxc

What is in a name?
The names are just a shorthand for easy reference.

crazedrat1000

If everyone agrees that a word means a thing then it does mean that thing, that's how language works.

TheSampson

chess.com’s opening recognition system is having a heart attack rn, it said the starting position of the Najdorf Sicilian was the Anti-English Variation and that the QGD was the English Opening

Ethan_Brollier

As far as I can tell, all “Pseudo” variations are positions where after one move they transpose back to the variation they are close to, but they also have the possibility to become entirely unique positions due to differing move orders, pawn structures, and possible piece placements.

pleewo
TheSampson wrote:

chess.com’s opening recognition system is having a heart attack rn, it said the starting position of the Najdorf Sicilian was the Anti-English Variation and that the QGD was the English Opening

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