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The 3...Qd8 Scandinavian

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malibumike

I recently bought "The 3....Qd8 Scandinavian".  All of my chess upbringing tells me this should be bad.  Has anyone played this line before?  I'd really like some feedback. (1. e4 d5 2. ed Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qd8)

Grindwriter

Should be super solid.  May verge on too passive if you're not careful.  In most variations, your opponent is going to have a couple tempos on you, which you should be able to ward off since your position has no real weaknesses, but against aggression, you're going to be defending without a ton of counterplay pretty often.

I can see where it would appeal to some types.

clunney

Frankly, I don't really think the 2. ...Qd5 lines are as good as the 2. ...Nf6 lines to begin with.  And I don't think the 2. ...Nf6 lines are that good.  So....

Grindwriter

I can see where they might not appeal to classically minded types, but I don't think one can reasonably conclude they aren't good.  This Qxd5 stuff is played by countless GM's.

TalsKnight

3 Qd6 is far superior over Qd8

skakmadurinn

I think Queen d6 is best. With white after Qa5 I like to play the b4 gambit!

TitanCG

Well a lot of strong players have played it and still do so there must be something to it.

Swindlers_List

ive considered the 3..qd8 scandinavian before. As others mentioned, you will get very little counterplay BUT it's solid, flexible and you dont need any theory to play it.

IronSteintz
malibumike wrote:

I recently bought "The 3....Qd8 Scandinavian".  All of my chess upbringing tells me this should be bad.  Has anyone played this line before?  I'd really like some feedback. (1. e4 d5 2. ed Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qd8)

The book puts forth a rather convincing presentation for playing it. I think the defense needs more promotion. How about this as it's theme song -As it's sang,  "Safe and sound, hold your ground". 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47dtFZ8CFo8

IronSteintz

Karpov used it in one of his two games as black in his recent four game match against Timman. The game ended in a draw. 

dlabtot

I like to play it in blitz.  It is solid, but many aren't familiar with it, so they will spend more time than they should on those first 8 or so moves.  In a 5 minute blitz game, a 30 second advantage on the clock will more than make up for the lack of counterplay.

Kann_Artist

Definitely annoying to play against in blitz but OTB standard, pretty lame. One of the marginal openings that Fischer "refuted" actually; the g6 follow-up has been smashed, which kind of ruins the point imo. Queen retreat variation seems like it should be trying to accomplish the same things as 2. ...Nf6 while avoiding all the developing hits on the knight, but without that strong bishop on g7 isn't Qd8 it just losing a tempo?

poucin
malibumike a écrit :

I recently bought "The 3....Qd8 Scandinavian".  All of my chess upbringing tells me this should be bad.  Has anyone played this line before?  I'd really like some feedback. (1. e4 d5 2. ed Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qd8)

I don't understand the point of your question.

U have a book about it, so the author and all his ideas is not enough for u?

U want people'advice but u should know than most here don't know anything or think they know but...

Just rely on your book and your own opinion., that is my advice.

Kann_Artist

pfren wrote:

Kann_Artist έγραψε:

Definitely annoying to play against in blitz but OTB standard, pretty lame. One of the marginal openings that Fischer "refuted" actually; the g6 follow-up has been smashed, which kind of ruins the point imo. Queen retreat variation seems like it should be trying to accomplish the same things as 2. ...Nf6 while avoiding all the developing hits on the knight, but without that strong bishop on g7 isn't Qd8 it just losing a tempo?

Why is 3...Qd8 losing a tempo?

It's not more time consuming than 3...Qa5 or 3...Qd6, where the Queen has to move again, sooner or later.

And 3...Qd8 4.d4 g6, like in Fisher- Robatch is far from being Black's best approach- Black's idea to pressurize the d4 pawn by ...Nh6-f5 and ...Bg7 looks nice, but it doesn't work after 5.Bf4.

The normal way is 4...Nf6 5.Nf3 Bg4 - where Black gets a solid position in exchange of the bishop pair (6.h3 Bxf3 7.Qxf3 c6 etc).

you obviously have infinitely more chess knowledge than I do, I might give it a try at the club for surprise value then. maybe trying for a draw when I'm playing up.. At your level do you ever actually see it outside of blitz? I remember the normal Qa5 center counter causing quite a stir in the Kasparov Anand match

Ziggy_Zugzwang

After originally seeing this thread I was inspired to look at this opening and get Daniel Lowinger's book. I think it very good. The games are well annotated and there is a lot of instructive content. The introductory chapter is good. Mention is made that the Scandinavian is superior to the Caro Kann since it eliminates white's e pawn before it can advance to e5 - whether this is tongue in cheek is not obvious.

 

The repeated movement of black's queen is compared to white's queen's knight. At some it has to move for white to mobilise his queenside majority. The author points out that moving to e4 just helps black swap off and as his pieces are confined in less territory, this suits him. If the Knight retreats to facilitate c4, then its not hard to conceive that black can take advantage.

 

The Qd8 variation comes into its own after 1e4 d5 2ed Qxd5 3Nc3 Qd8 4d4 Nf6 5Bc4(?) a6...

White of course can play 5Nf3 and black's best may be Bg4 leading to a possible trade after h3 where he maybe looking more to draw.

pwnsrppl2

Carlsen used this variation in a win over Caruana. Perhaps someone can link it.

 

enoshan

if 3.Qd8 is good for carlsen, should be all right grin.png

 

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1768345

Yigor

Funny enough, it's the variation of the first recorded chess game (Castellvi-Vinyoles, 1475) peshka.png:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1259987

Klepatus

It's rock solid. You retreat the queen put the light square bishop on g4 or f5. Play c6 and e6, Caro kann players should love that pawn structure.

RussBell
enoshan wrote:

if 3.Qd8 is good for carlsen, should be all right

 

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1768345

[Event "Chess Olympiad"]
[Site "Tromso NOR"]
[Date "2014.08.08"]
[EventDate "2014.08.02"]
[Round "6.3"]
[Result "0-1"]
[White "Fabiano Caruana"]
[Black "Magnus Carlsen"]
[ECO "B01"]
[WhiteElo "2801"]
[BlackElo "2877"]