The Danish Gambit

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craiggillies67

what does everyone think about the danish gambit is it good or not

sisu

Let's make it happen!

craiggillies67

what?

proppolis

Not too good.

baddogno

It works well against the greedy and the foolish.  Otherwise, no.

bresando

The quieter version where white sacs just one pawn (1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3) is sound and about equal with best play as far as i know, while the proper Danish double pawn sac should lead to some advantage for black. Pfen covered these lines pretty extensively in a blog article here on chess.com (check his profile). I have no improvements to offer on his analysis, yet I am something of a coward and I don't think I'm ever going to accept the double pawn offer over the board (correspondence is different of course). Black position might be simply better for a player as strong as Pfen is , but for a 1900 fide player like me it's not so easy to handle the black pieces in such positions. I'm satisfyed with declining the gambit and getting simple equality.

baddogno

In one of IM Danny Rensch's videos he talked briefly about the Danish and

the line he felt was best for black went: 1.e4  e5 2.d4  exd4 3.c3  d5 

4.exd5  Qxd5 5.cxd4 and now white is saddled with an IQP.  The main idea being that you don't want to help white develop his pieces.  I'm just the messenger...Laughing

bresando

That's the classical way of declining the gambit. It's not as simple as "saddling white with an IQP" (even the fact that having an IQP is necessarily a disadvantage is debatable), since unless black knows a concrete follow up white will gain time on the black queen and get a nice initiative. After 5...Nc6 6.Nf3 Bg4 7.Be2 Bb4+ 8.Nc3 Bxf3! 9.Bxf3 Qc4! (preventing white from castling and threatening to win material) 10.Bxc6+ bxc6 11.Qe2+ Qxe2+ 12.Kxe2 Ne7 white's weakness on d4 is balanced by black's split queenside pawns, and the position is about equal. (there are several deviations on this mainline of course, but they mosly are unfavourable for white). This defense has been worked out by capablanca and is what i play myself. It's safe, simple and sound but of course it doesn't attempt to refute white's gambit.

baddogno

@Bresando: Thanks for the mini lesson!  Lucid enough that even I understood it. Smile

xxvalakixx
bresando

That's another nice line, the Schlechter defense. I am attached to this line as well since I was able to "rediscover" it myself in a casual game some years ago (I mean that i was able to work it out on my own without knowing the theory; nothing special but still it felt good :)).  It's simple, forcing and leads to an equal endgame position which most gambit players will bitterly dislike; the only disadvantage is that it forces you to face the accepted line 5.Nxc3, which is allright for black but still unpleasant over the board. The capablanca defence I mentioned earlier has the advantage of providing a complete solution to 3.c3 without ever allowing white the gambit play he wants (unless he plays dubious deviations). Of course both lines are good, it's a matter of taste.

bresando

May I ask, do you have a suggestion about how to meet 4.Nxc3 in a relatively safe way? 

TheGreatOogieBoogie

Is that book Danish Dynamite by any chance?  It looks like a great opening to play against beginners or those who are weak at calculation with.  Of course, if you're a beginner yourself you should probably stay away from this opening as your positional understanding likely wont be sufficient to find moves outside of book or try attacking incorrectly. 

LoveYouSoMuch

that shouldn't be a problem as their beginner opponents will also play incorrect defence.

ponz111

If you want simple but somewhat effective then 3. ...Qe7  White might equalize but the pracical play is nice for Black.

bresando
pfren wrote:
bresando wrote:

May I ask, do you have a suggestion about how to meet 4.Nxc3 in a relatively safe way? 

Good questin, really.

IMO the only way to a safe Black slight advantage is 4...Bc5 5.Bc4 (or 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bc4 etc) 5...d6 6.Nf3 Nf6 7.e5!? Qe7 8.0-0 de5 9.Nxe5 0-0 10.Re1 Be6, when white certainly has some compensation, but whether it enough for a pawn is open to scrutiny...

Thank you for the suggestion. I'll give a look to this line.

gambit-man
craiggillies67 wrote:

what does everyone think about the danish gambit is it good or not

I like it, but then i'm a gambiteer Wink

FrenchTutor
pfren wrote:

Well, the 5...d5 variation is a well-known equalizer for Black. Actually Black may have a very slight edge in the resulting endgame, but with correct play white should be able to hold his own.

3...Qe7 is another good variation. I just don't agree with the analysis posted by Kaufmann in his repertoire book- I think that with exact play white should get adequate compensation for his pawn (although this requires very careful analysis, which I have not done, and I do not intend to do.

IMO "my" 5...Bb4+! is a variation killer. What is really bad for white: Black gets a clear advantage by just developing, and memorizing very little.

So far, noone was able to refute my analysis, neither here, nor in Chesspub forum (there the only argument was if the final positon in my analysis was a clear advantage for Black, or rather a slight one).

Actually my only REAL contrinbution to existing theory was a simple, yet subtle move: 1.e4 e5 2.d4?! ed4 3.c3 dc3 4.Bc4?! (4.Nxc3!) cb2 5.Bxb2 Bb4+! 6.Nc3 Nf6 7.Nge2 0-0 8.0-0 d6! (over the theoretical 8...Nc6) when the standard Nc3-d5 recipe simply does not work.

On Bb4+, can white try for advantage with Kf1?  For example

 



gambit-man

Craig, why not have a go at a thematic tournament? It'll give you an insight into the opening, which lines to play and which lines to avoid. There is one here http://www.chess.com/tournament/the-danish-gambit2 but of course you can find others

TitanCG

Pfren covered practically everything here:

http://www.chess.com/article/view/danish-cracker

I am stumped after 5...Bb4+ 6.Kf1 Nf6 7.e5 d5 8.Bb5+ Nd7! instead of 8...c6.