The Grob
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Opinions? Or is it “too weak, too slow”? ;)
well it is played by IM Michael Basman frequently and he's beaten grandmasters with it, so by no means is it "too weak"
I’m just making a Magnus Carlson reference. How does he play it?
Apr 19, 2018
0
#5
there is no denying that IM basman is a genius. Something admirable about playing so well with something that defies all chess sense.
the mainline grob is however busted .
believe it or not, this successful grob is actually already a slight advantage to black because of how bad white's position is. another simple antidote is, 3.c4 c6 4.qb3 e6 5.qxb7 nd7 6. qxc3 rc8 followed by rxc4 (if white traded with cxd5 earlier, then this exact line with rc8 wins because of the f1 bishop unguarded.
a line i like to keep it short and sweet.
where the extra pawn is worthless and will fall anyways. another try is 3...qg5!? 4. bf3 Qh4 5.intending nf6 and d5. the whole of the queen movements is to make the king knight have no square or make white have to play bg2 again to play nf3.
Basman i think knew about these problems. which is why he played 2.h3 vs d5 and 2.d3 vs e5 allowing g5 if h5. sometimes he never fianchettoed the bishop!
Colingohmann98 a écrit :
well it is played by IM Michael Basman frequently and he's beaten grandmasters with it, so by no means is it "too weak"
ok an IM won some games with it.
Does it make this sound or good?
It is just crap, I mean, who would like to play 1.g4 d5 2.h3?
Basman has an original spirit, who plays unusual/personal ideas, which hardly fits to anyone.
U can wonder : why such a famous player like Basman is only IM? simple answer : u can't really achieve a high level playing this kind of opening. U can play it sometimes for surprise value, but every time i have some doubts...
Apr 19, 2018
0
#7
The Grob's a fun surprise opening at the club level. It performs worse and worse the higher you get, though.
Apr 19, 2018
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#9
pfren wrote:
1.g4 is the worst first move for white out of twenty.
Wow! Really? I'd have thought 1.h4 myself got that title of worst possible move, and maybe 1.f3 second, and would have guessed 1.g4 to be number 3 on the list of worst moves.
1.g4 is still crap though! Absolutely no reason to play it when moves like 1.d4, 1.e4, 1.c4, 1.Nf3 and even moves like 1.g3, 1.b3, 1.b4, 1.f4, and 1.Nc3 are all light years better than 1.g4.
This game is frequently cited as best play for Black against the Grob Opening:
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1026281
I have beaten an I.M. with it in a normal time limit game. Basman is a cool guy. He also played ...g5 in a lot of openings.
ThrillerFan a écrit :
pfren wrote:
1.g4 is the worst first move for white out of twenty.
Wow! Really? I'd have thought 1.h4 myself got that title of worst possible move, and maybe 1.f3 second, and would have guessed 1.g4 to be number 3 on the list of worst moves.
1.g4 is still crap though! Absolutely no reason to play it when moves like 1.d4, 1.e4, 1.c4, 1.Nf3 and even moves like 1.g3, 1.b3, 1.b4, 1.f4, and 1.Nc3 are all light years better than 1.g4.
u forgot 1.a3, 1.h3, 1.d3, 1.e3 and even 1.c3.
I am not sure 1.h4 so bad, white could aim to play a Gurgenidze system tempo up.
g4 is the worst.Check on brainfish ( celebellum ) website. Celebellum is the opening data base of 500,000 by deep analysis with stockfish.
Tartakower said that so long as an opening is reputed to be weak, it can be played. Of course, openings can get that reputation two different ways. First, the opening may be objectively weak, but more often, it is because weak players try it without understanding the basic premise of the opening.
The big issue with the Grob is that it lacks the flexibility of its queenside counterpart, the Orangutan (1. b4). It's harder to prove that the kingside space means anything, especially if your opponent doesn't castle kingside. Like the Orangutan, if you can somehow get the pawn safely to g5, it can prove quite problematic for black's development on that side.
Apr 19, 2018
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#15
poucin wrote:
ThrillerFan a écrit :
pfren wrote:
1.g4 is the worst first move for white out of twenty.
Wow! Really? I'd have thought 1.h4 myself got that title of worst possible move, and maybe 1.f3 second, and would have guessed 1.g4 to be number 3 on the list of worst moves.
1.g4 is still crap though! Absolutely no reason to play it when moves like 1.d4, 1.e4, 1.c4, 1.Nf3 and even moves like 1.g3, 1.b3, 1.b4, 1.f4, and 1.Nc3 are all light years better than 1.g4.
u forgot 1.a3, 1.h3, 1.d3, 1.e3 and even 1.c3.
I am not sure 1.h4 so bad, white could aim to play a Gurgenidze system tempo up.
Nah, didn't forget those. I seriously think 1.g4 is weaker. 1.d3 you could end up in a Reversed Modern Defense, similar to the 1.g3 stuff that Duncan Suttles played.
1.a3 in essense loses a tempo, but is not weakening like 1.g4 or 1.h4. I even think 1.h3 is better than 1.h4
1.e3 gives white nothing in terms of any advantage, but it is not weakening either. Same with 1.c3.
The only reason I saw 1.a4 is not as bad as 1.g4 or 1.h4 is it's not on the side of the King.
Apr 19, 2018
0
#16
Dsmith42 wrote:
Tartakower said that so long as an opening is reputed to be weak, it can be played. Of course, openings can get that reputation two different ways. First, the opening may be objectively weak, but more often, it is because weak players try it without understanding the basic premise of the opening.
The big issue with the Grob is that it lacks the flexibility of its queenside counterpart, the Orangutan (1. b4). It's harder to prove that the kingside space means anything, especially if your opponent doesn't castle kingside. Like the Orangutan, if you can somehow get the pawn safely to g5, it can prove quite problematic for black's development on that side.
The Grob is just objectively bad because of all the weaknesses you create on the kingsside. If you're a strong player you might be able to mitigate that fact a weaker Player will struggle to find the right moves to hold the balnace.
