The Grob's Attack, and Why We Don't Play it More???

Sort:
EarthFlatNotaGlobe
lolurspammed wrote:

"He can wait for you to slip up and win rather than pushing too hard."  

 

First, you are assuming my opponent was not "pushing" to win.  Wrong.  He played the book moves through most of the opening theory.  He then deviated in an attempt to trip me up or cause me to use time (30 min/game).   I found an excellent move and kept with him. Furthermore, he did not "wait for me to slip up" and he didn't go easy on me.   How do I know?   He told me.  He also said he was impressed at how well I knew the opening and played after he deviated. So don't be assuming.

You are entitled to your own choice of play...and so am I.   Maybe I played the game of my life and will never do better but this I know for a fact... I played a 2300 player (2304 to be exact), and it took him 51 moves to force me to resign (I could have gone on a half dozen more).   Had I played ANY other opening, he could have beaten me twice, maybe three times in 51 moves TOTAL for all games put together.


Now according to the near 1000 point difference in our ratings, I should have been wiped out long before 50 moves had elapsed....especially considering the average game is less than 40 moves.

One day (if it hasn't happened already, more than once even) you and your kin will find yourselves on the losing end of some "inferior" opening.  Your only solace will be IF your opponent had played that opening when you were more improved (if ever) THEN you would have won.  (Maybe)    I am not angry nor being confrontational.  I am merely stating facts. I hope you're not playing a game that is critical when you lose to that inferior opening.

I am perfectly happy with my strategy and will relish the points when I steal them from a higher rated player.   It's funny.  Most of those adamantly declaring these "inferior" openings should never be played seem to think GM's are the only chess players out there.  Fact is, the overly vast majority of chess players are weak and moderate club players. AND virtually every GM HAS studied the 'inferior' openings because every opening has something in it that can be learned and utilized.

(For those of you who didn't see my first post or remember, the opening I played against a much higher rated player was the Scandinavian.)

May you always have the first move...and if not...may you win anyway. Smile

 

BirdsDaWord
Fiveofswords wrote:

look the grob is just bad. it doesnt have any objective merit because you are creating weakness on your kingside with no compensation and not even really developing. maybe you can get away with this and maybe not. its quite easy to lose from the opening playing the grob and even if you study this opening in depth to avoid losing that time wouldve been better spent learning a logical opening. i dont think anyone plays the grob for it merit they just play it to be different. and really that simply shows impatience because there is opportunity to be creative without being bad in any chess game. you dobt need to be 'different' on move 1. so honestly even if you consider being different to be more important than winning you still should not play the grob. because the weakness you create limits your reasonable later decisions more.

This is not entirely true. The Grob has been played at very high levels from GMs such as Keres, and even today, there are a few GMs who still champion it.  I am not saying it is as good as 1. e4 or 1. d4, but if someone is able to traverse the minefield and come out with a better position, then may the best player win.

BirdsDaWord
Fiveofswords wrote:

take the nakamura game for example. rybka played the grob and nakamura won. rybka is stronger than nakamura...

Tactically, but from what I understand, that game became a positional battle, and Rybka went into suicide mode at the 50 move limit, which Naka was aware of.  This is what I understand about that game.

Parnon

There's actually a good chance that the Grob is the worst possible first move for white.  1. f3 is bad, but it doesn't create the same irreparable damage to white's kingside as 1. g4.  An awful first move isn't enough to decide the game; there's still a lot of chess to be played, so a strong player can make up for it.  With that being said, it's a surefire way to hand a clear advantage to your opponent after one move.  I don't think any other first move can make that claim.

lolurspammed

There isn't a chance that it's the worst. It IS is the worst first move. However 1.c4 g5 is a legitimate opening.

shivank2005

see this grobs is known has worst opening for white because of g4 whites poor king side becomes too weak and now a days nobody falls in these traps of grobs.

EarthFlatNotaGlobe

Mr. IM pfren,    "white is just worse".    Any engine will say white is "just worse" after the first move.  The point is not to prove the Grob is a perfect opening.  The point is to show that black had better know how to respond or black will be in big trouble...which is the case with all openings.

dpnorman

The Grob sucks! Why are we wasting our lives talking about this? 

user0719

The Sokolsky (Organgutan, Polish) Opening 1.b4 is the Q-side correlate to the Grob. At first glance, I like the idea of it better since it doesn't weaken the monarch area as already alluded. I can also say that 1.b4 confuses the daylights out of many opponents, or at least this has been true in my own case. I've been able to steal black e-pawns and even black k-side rooks from players rated 500 ELO pts higher on many, many occasions. I wonder if the Grob (the "Spike") could achieve some similar coups, but I don't yet have the experience with it to make a conclusion. I'll start trying the Grob immediately, because I love this kind of "bad" chess that allows you to blow away stronger opponents and not get credited for it. Or at least, not get theoretical credit. The best "easy" trap in Grob's is to catch the black Queen's rook following 1.g4 ..d5  2.Bg2 ..Bxg4  3.c4, and now if 3 ..dxc4 then you've won the exchange and the rook is yours.

BronsteinPawn
dpnorman escribió:

The Grob sucks! Why are we wasting our lives talking about this? 

Relativity, you should know about it by now. If you truly are going to school...

DrSpudnik

Everything sucks in its own special way.

chesster3145

I would categorically disagree. The Grob sucks, and for many reasons. First, the positional weaknesses created by 1. g4?:

e2-e4 is no longer desirable due to the hole created on f4 and the further weakening of f2.

If White plays d2-d4, White's e- and f- pawns become somewhat backward.

h4 is weak already.

Castling kingside is no longer desirable.

Secondly, what can happen to White because of that:

Black can occupy the center at will.

Black is given weaknesses to shoot at right away.

If White chooses to castle queenside, he faces the problem of developing all of his queenside pieces within a relatively cramped position.

 

Put simply, White is significantly worse. The issue isn't that he has committed any fatal error, but that his position is fundamentally unsound and rather prospectless.

MitSud
Just play it in bullet and blitz nowhere else
DrSpudnik

And make sure you don't play bullet & blitz.

KholmovDM

Because it's terrible. 

1965galaxie
Conquistador, thanks for sharing all your work. And for putting it out there, like Teddy Roosevelts man in the arena. What do you think about 1g4 e5, 2g2 d5 3d3 ? Giving black another chance at bxp?
ModestAndPolite
southpawsam wrote:

<snip>

I have started to play ...  the Grob's Attack. I don't understand why we don't play it more

<snip>

 

Because it is junk.

That some IMs beat amateurs with it means nothing.  

Why start the game by giving yourself a handicap equivalent to 200 rating points or more?  But if you insist on playing it then go ahead. Waste the time in which you could be learning openings that will serve you for the rest of your life.

MIke Basman might have become a GM if he had spent less of his time on rubbish openings (1. g4 for white, 1. ... a6 for Black).

ModestAndPolite
EarthFlatNotaGlobe wrote:

Mr. IM pfren,    "white is just worse".    Any engine will say white is "just worse" after the first move.  The point is not to prove the Grob is a perfect opening.  The point is to show that black had better know how to respond or black will be in big trouble...which is the case with all openings.

 

pfren is (as usual) right. There is no need for Black to "know how to respond" to junk moves whether they are played on move 100 or move one (1.g4) , except perhaps in Bullet.  If you have time to think then you just work out why it is so awful and play good chess to exploit its deficiencies. 

penandpaper0089

The thing about 1.g4 d5 is that although it's theoretically better for Black he does need to play actively and accurately constantly or else he'll just get destroyed on the light squares. One or two passive moves from Black (which is frankly expected from class players) and White is doing more than fine.

I remember seeing Timur Gareev play this in blindfold blitz once against an IM. The IM played a really bad passive move and was utterly decimated. If it can happen to him it can happen to anyone.

1.g4 e5 is just depressing though.

BronsteinPawn

blitz used to prove the practicality of an opening? JOKE.