Thoughts on the Philidor defence?

 In Master Games here on this site, 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 (2...d6 is the third most common response here) has a win rate of 45 percent for white, 28 percent draws and 27 percent for black. 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 (the most common response) wins 37 percent of the time for white, 36 percent end up in draws and 27 percent end up in wins for black. That's a pretty dramatic difference.

@DeidreSkye Thank you so much for the in-depth analysis!

The black lion does look very interesting. You did mention that the Philidor can get risky, which is fair enough with the lessened use of space. 

Because of that, I think that I might wait and see. I might wait to improve a bit before I begin trying the sharper lines. If I do decide to go into the Philidor lines, I will definitely look at the Ginger GM's work. 

It is better than its reputation from my limited experience of it.

I do get what they are saying - if there are mistakes they need to be built on. But like you are saying, if something works, there is nothing wrong in staying with it.

If you could show me some of those lines, that would be greatly appreciated.

I'm guessing that this is the one that you were talking about? If so, I will look at it in mre depth when I am not distracted by class.

You're rating will drop under 800 if you play the philidor. Last warning...

From what I remember, i haven't seen too many people play the Pirc. However, by what I have seen in this forum, it looks like the Pirc has merit.

Thank you. But which move is supposed to be Nc3?

Yes the pirc is fine. New players like that one too because it's very hard to lose material during the first 5-10 moves. However if you don't know what you're doing white gets a very good position anyway.

Just play 1...e5 and follow classical principals.

Classical principles as in move to allow development?

Like:

Place and maintain a pawn in the center
Develop minor pieces off the back rank quickly and to where they influence the center
Castle to a side where your pawns haven't moved
After this play a pawn break / pawn capture to open lines.

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You can play in a way that allows your opponent to have a big pawn center, then you try to break it down in the middlegame, but if done incorrectly your opponent will have a big advantage. Also there will be many opportunities to alter the structure, each structure having its own strategic themes, so it's just more difficult to play this way in general.

Ah yeah of course. Thank you

Agreed! I might add that it's solid.

Yes abandon the Philidor and Pirc, because there are no tricks and traps and theory in the Sicilian to concern you! There are no space or piece placement issues in the French. The Caro Kann has no theory to worry about. And you will make your workload extremely light by taking up 1...e5. And of course in all of the mentioned openings you will never move a side pawn and will always have pawn breaks available at your very whim! 

I remember playing against the Philidor by competition that ranged from almost as good as I am to mediocrely bad to very bad and I would say that the opening that I had the most trouble beating them with when I was white was the Philidor.  It is a solid defense at all levels, once you know to take the pawn as black after the following:

I'm no expert in the Philidor, however, I noticed that this sequence of moves causes me to try harder to beat a current opponent of mine that isn't so good at chess.  He learned to play this way, after losing outright in the opening in variations like this:

I actually can't recreate the games I played with this guy he apparently made moves that where so bad that I can't figure out what he actually did.  I just make good moves and I see that black has some good chances even if he doesn't take the pawn and leaves it on pre.  

So I would have to say that I "learned" bad chess from playing bad players.  Doesn't matter if you take the pawn or not, black can still achieve equality if he just develops with a purpose.  If black wastes time with his pawns he will probably get in trouble later on, but if he develops accordingly he should make a good game so long as he develops develops develops.  I don't think black needs this black l,.ion someone else spoke of to get a good position, they just need to develop their pieces and play normal chess.  The Philidor is a very Solid defense, a defense that as a beginner, had a hard time facing people that were either close to my level or a bit lower than me.  (I would say I wasn't a beginner at that time but I was a much worse player back then obviously it was a long time ago).  I'm currently Unrated in USCF, but my provisional rating is 1800, and this next tournament I go to will shed some light on where exactly I am rating wise..."I will be facing people that are rated 1800.

The only drawback to the Philidor is that the dark squared bishop gets a role of passive defense, however, this really isn't that bad.  I'm sure there are other drawbacks, but that is the one that sticks out to me, the obvious one, but I am not one to say that this is a bad opening, quite the contrary, I believe this is one of the best defenses black has in his arsenal.  That is just my feeble low rated opinion.  Black trades early passiveness for eventual later on crazy attacks it seems in the black lion, but normally black usually just gets equalized, and the pieces get traded, and whoever wins in a blitz game only one because of an unfortunate oversite of the opponent due to rapid play.  I can't remember the games, but I remember very drawish stuff happening with people at my level when I played back then, when I had no idea how to play against the Philidor.  If you don't know how to play against the Philidor, then black has an easier time, because so long as he doesn't fall for the various traps that exist in the Philidor, black should have an easier time playing it, in my opinion, if white doesn't know what he is doing, and black doesn't either.  What I am saying is that it's easier for black to come up with a defense than it is for white to come up with an attack against an equal skilled player, where both players don't really know anything about the Philidor, save for the traps that exist in it, to which black will then avoid.

So, that being said, like any opening, it depends on who knows more!  Or at least who spends more time on their clock figuring the position out, and later saving enough time to win on a fast paced endgame that is easier to calculate....  This is, of course, assuming OTB time controls, or longer internet time controls that apparently, no one wants to play...

The Philidor is just another opening for black, but overall it is a solid defense for black, and should not be under estimated by anyone.

if black plays it well, its VERY hard for white to prove even advantage once you are both fully developed. if white get's cocky and tries playing "natural moves". he will often end up worse without even knowing why. its a great defense to play agaisnt impatient agresssive players who always feel the need for the initiative.

if white is a strong  positional player though, its not as enjoyable to play. white can pretty much take almost forever setting up the ideal counterattack and black has to play turtle or try to force trades.Black'swinning chances are often as high as white allows them to be. 

for white, i personally like the a4-b3-ba3 structure agaisnt it. this avoids any sudden b5 pawn push, and either attacks a weak d6 square or makes the dxe5 trade more consequential. white should also try to give the f-pawn some breathing space to play either f3 or f4.

lol

While the Philidor is a sound opening I believe that it could reinforce bad habits when played by weak players. It shouldn't be your first opening.

Haha yeah it turns out that I've been off the Philidor for a while. 2 ... Nc6 for me now!