Traxler Mistakes

I play a fair amount of Traxler Counter-Gambits; I win some, lose some. But I have noticed that many opponents who seem otherwise decent players (judged by either their rating or my past experience with them) sometimes go brain-dead playing against this opening, even when my own moves may not be objectively the best.  For example, I just played the following game in which my opponent, who was rated about the same as me, gave me the game in 9 moves. 

I wonder if anyone else has such experience with this or other not-so-well-known openings?

5/0, but there was absolutely no time problems.

I tried to look up the game to see the ratings, however it looks like you don't play here anymore.  If the ratings are similar to what you had here, then opening traps and uncommon gambits will get you a lot of miniatures.  They will not help you improve though if you keep playing them after you learn them.  I have not seen this one before.  Interesting, thanks for sharing.

It wasn't a trap.... that's the point and I'm not sure if it's just uncommon gambits, since I excounter similar experience, though to a lesser degree, in the very common King's Gambit.

I don't really know it, but it does not look sound.  Is it?

Traxler counter attack works if the opponent is unfamiliar with the counter attack and has little time to properly think (aka little time controls). It often leads to very sharp lines.

However, anyone who knows how to play against it, and especially with long time controls, then black will be digging his own grave.

That's kinda what I thought.  Thanks.

It is probably not sound but theoretical musings are not very helpful when the clock is ticking. 

Anyway I guess 8.Qf1 is better but 8...Rf8 looks uncomfortable.

Any serious 3. Bc4 player should not just know the Traxler and therefore not be suprised by it, but should be prepared to play 5. Bxf7+ followed by retreating the bishop the next move.  This as Kasparov would say "is something every school boy knows".

What's a traxler? I have no idea what it is, but it doesn't sound like a compliment to me. If someone called me that to my face I would probably punch them.

I agree that theoretical musings are not going to help in a game.  I would probably lose to this strategy the first time, especially if it was blitz.  And I don't know if this should be classified as an opening trap or not.  What I do know is that people who study chess eventually hit a ceiling and the people who study opening traps hit the lowest ceiling.  Part of what makes games like chess so complicated is avoiding positive reinforcement when you play poorly.  That is what happens when you play to win like this.  You still need to learn them so you don't get trapped.

Instead of 9.Qh3, what would there have been any saving move for white by that late stage like g3 or Qf1?

I don't really know if all that is true or not. All I know is that care is required when dealing with such openings. It's not exactly easy to see where White went wrong before Qf3.

I was trying to understand this because I played the Italian almost exclusively as white till a video I watched recently convinced me to switch to the Ruy Lopez.  Anyway, I had not seen this in play and I did not see it on the few Italian videos I could find.  Are you sure it is for anyone who plays 3 Bc4?  If I don't play the fried liver I don't see how this works.

Its been so long, yes white should play Bf7+ when black plays Bc5 on move 5. Otherwise you can get into crazy lines, ones like the Dracula-Frankenstein variation.

 A true story is in my 1st tournament I played black, and one guy I played against was rated about 1100, and he was an old guy, which I had no problem with, but I had never studied openings at all, ( I was in my mid 20's), and he played the Italian on me, and used the Dracula-Frankenstein variation on me, which is he used his knight to capture my f7 pawn, he won my rook.

I almost came back, and beat him, but he was leering at me, and I was about to queen a pawn, and I touched my knight, and he jumped up leering and saying you touched it you have to move it. Well that kind of threw me, and  I said, I know. I was planning on moving my knight anyway, but because he distracted me I moved it to another square, than I intended.

I would have won otherwise. I kind of felt sorry for that old guy. He wanted to beat me so bad. He wasn't very good, and yes I was a better player than him, even without knowing openings.

Later some of the other club members told me about defenses to that variation, because I generally brought my 2 knights out 1st after e5, The 2 knights defense, Traxler is a similar variation of the Dracula-Frankenstein variation, and I vaguely remember it as well.

After white takes the f7 pawn and checks black's King, he usually should pull that bishop back to c3, I believe Fischer liked that move the best IIRC.

Anyway after that tournament I switched to the Sicilian, and started studying the openings. I like the Italian, for white, and yes as already pointed out, you need to know variations black can go into. BatGirl's game is a perfect example as to why. 

Congrats on your win BatGirl. Also thanks for sharing it, it is very instructive.

The Bxf7+ line gives Black the most trouble in my experience, and may be ultimately a refutation, but even that line isn't easy for White. In practical play, Black gets a lot of play in either major line.

If anyone is unfamiliar with this variation of the 2 Kts. Defense, a while back I had written a four-part series, mostly on the historical aspects, on the Traxler:
Chess in the Wild I
Chess in the Wild II
Chess in the Wild III
Chess in the Wild IV

Ok good point it only pertains to 4. Ng5 -- however please stop calling 4. Ng5 "The Fried Liver", because it isn't.  The Fried Liver is the specific line that arises after 4. Ng5 d5  5. exd5 Nxd5?!  6. Nxf7:

http://www.chess.com/opening/eco/C57_Italian_Game_Two_Knights_Defense_Fried_Liver_Attack

Thanks BatGirl, I'll be checking them out, and you are right, black can get plenty of play in. Also I was going to edit my post, I meant that bishop should go back to b3, not c3, oops, sorry about that. Yeah taking blacks pawn on f7 especially with your knight can be very risky for white. All kinds of crazy lines come out of it. (my advice stay away from it) If you play the Italian. An old chess program I had, said c3 instead of Ng5 preparing d4.

 5.Nf7 is a very poor move..5.Bf7+ is better

Some would agree that 5.Bxf7+ is better, but 5. Nxf7+ isn't necessarily a very poor move.

Here's a high class win by Black after 5. Bxf7+

and things can go horribly wrong for Black after 5. Nxf7+ . . .