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Triangle Caro-French

  • #21

    Thanks to MickinMD and IM poucin for good and relevant critics of this opening. happy.png

  • #22

    Lol , You are funny Yigor.

    MickinMD is a very knowledgeable player with an understanding of chess much higher than his rating and of course IMPoucin is always useful and his help very much appreciated by all of us.

         Still what they said is something even 1200 kids know and something it has been already said in many comments.

      Let me remind you because seems that your memory is extremely weak:

    Comment 1

    Yes , let's talk concretly.

    All  GMs(at least the top ones) have engines and powerful computers and obviously they saw it still rejected it and noone employed it(not even in blitz).

            Let's be more concrete.There is no point at all to play 1...c6 and 2...e6 since you get a bad Caro Kan or a  bad French if you eventually play ...d5.And if you don't play ...d5 what will you do?.K-side fiancheto will lead to bad Modern , and any ...Nf6 attempt will lead to bad Alekhine's defense and that's pretty much all Black's reasonable options.

           Since you are proud about your on line rating even 1200 FIDE rated kids know that 1.e4 c6 2.d4 e6 can't be good and it doesn't really need deep understanding.Any player with common sense would smile and ignore the move or show it as an example why engine evaluations on early moves can't be trusted.

     

    Comment 2 from  m_n0

    The whole point of 1...c6 is to play 2...d5 without blocking in the c8 Bishop, at the cost of a tempo on ...c5. Playing ...e6 immediately after ...c6 undoes that benefit and is likely to leave Black a tempo down in a French.

    Comment 3 from ThrillerFan

    Post 6 is exactly right!  It's total [email protected]!  I play both the French and the Caro-Kann in over the board tournaments.  Anybody that plays this garbage has no clue of the reasoning behind the Caro-Kann versus the French, and is accepting the downside of both defenses!

    Your answer in these 3 was vert=y relevant and constructive.

    This is a primitive thinking and any strong engine will demolish U. grin.png

    and

    Yeah, as always, U are full of empty words having no real meaning.

    Comment 4 from chesssdotcomv3sucks

    Another..."The engine says this is a good second move" post.  

    The move sucks.  It defeats the whole purpose of playing 1...c6.  

    Where is the LSB Bishop going?

    Why isnt black challenging the center?

    Another example of wayyy to much emphasis being placed on engine analysis.  At tournaments, i dont play engines, i play people.  

    and you answer:

    Just play 3... d5 and U will challenge the center. U think just in 1 ply blitz.pngblitz.pngblitz.png and U pretend to have better ideas than an engine ?!? Sorry but U demonstrate the highest degree of silliness.

    and

    Yeah, unfortunately for U, 2...e6 makes the perfect sense. blitz.pngblitz.pngblitz.png It prepares 3...d5 better than 1...c6 alone.

    and

    I'd like that engine haters show all their silliness.

          So everybody that said what MickinMD and IMPoucin said was accused as silly in the highest degree and engine hater and you were the one without any relevant or constructive comments insisting that 1...c6 and 2...e6 makes perfect sense because it makes perfect sense in Semi Slav.

      What changed?

    You just want to admit that you were saying nonsense all this time and you don't know how?

     

  • #23

     Yigor is basically the openings version of StupidGM. Block them both.

  • #24

    DeirdreSkye: MickinMD (as always) and IM poucin (this time) made their critics normally without back thoughts, filthy words etc. It makes the difference.

  • #25
    RookSacrifice wrote:

     Yigor is basically the openings version of StupidGM. Block them both.

     

    And who are U to judge others ?!? It the first time that I see U in the Opening Forum. Just block yourself.

  • #26
    Yigor wrote:

    DeirdreSkye: MickinMD (as always) and IM poucin (this time) made their critics normally without back thoughts, filthy words etc. It makes the difference.

          I laugh a lot when people like you forget everything they have said and they pretend that they are angels.     

    Which was the filthy word when m_n0 told you:

    The whole point of 1...c6 is to play 2...d5 without blocking in the c8 Bishop, at the cost of a tempo on ...c5. Playing ...e6 immediately after ...c6 undoes that benefit and is likely to leave Black a tempo down in a French.

    and you accused him of "primitive thinking".

    This is a primitive thinking and any strong engine will demolish U. grin.png

    Who was the filthy in this case?

          You are no angel Yigor.Stop pretending the one.You can't fool anyone , except maybe your self.

     

  • #27

    DeirdreSkye: All right, here I can definitely agree: I'm not an angel. happy.png

  • #28

       Much as I hate to sound a negative note here, I have to agree with most of the naysayers. This is like a French, but you'll need two moves to get the c5 pawn lever in. Or, it's like a Caro-Kann, but you've blocked in your LSB. I just don't see any problems for white after 5.c4, except maybe death and taxes........

  • #29
    melvinbluestone wrote:

       Much as I hate to sound a negative note here, I have to agree with most of the naysayers. This is like a French, but you'll need two moves to get the c5 pawn lever in. Or, it's like a Caro-Kann, but you've blocked in your LSB. I just don't see any problems for white after 5.c4, except maybe death and taxes........

     

    Yeah, it was not a great invention useful more for classification purposes than for real games. tongue.png Nevertheless, I tried Caro-French in several games, it went differently and without losses of tempo or any problems for black (still in progress).

  • #30
    RookSacrifice έγραψε:

     Yigor is basically the openings version of StupidGM. Block them both.

    You are wrong.

    StupidGM may be a egitripping psycho with little chess knowledge, but he understands chess way better than Yigor ever did.

  • #31
    pfren wrote:
    DeirdreSkye έγραψε:

     

    You have to bypass the geometrical shape and see deeper in the position.Geometry and numbers can't explain chess you need more than that.

     

    I'm sorry to inform you that arguing with an idiot will lead you nowhere.

    But a several idiots arguing is the forum way

  • #32

    Just a few statistics I`d like to share with my fellow Chessplayers on this somewhat interesting thread. Granted, I mostly teach kids, play correspondence Chess on ICCF, USCF and Chess.com Vote Chess games and I am mostly retired from OTB competitions. Nevertheless, I think that it is vital to check out the percentages of various continuations especially in correspondence games. Here is what I gleaned from ChessBase 13`s database with the sequence in question of 1 e4, c6; 2 d4, e6; 3 Nf3, d5; 4 e5, Ne7.

    Moves       Games      Transpositions    Score *      Last played 

    4...Ne7     60                     2               66.1%      2016 

    Now the breakdown of the correspondence games in the database (of which is derived from the above list):

    4...Ne7     10                     -               60.0%         -

    * Scores are from White`s point of view. 

    In conclusion, it seems that this line is a bit risky and in correspondence games it could be downright fatal. Except for the 3...d5 move, this sequence seems to resemble the "hedgehog" concept of putting most of one`s pawns and pieces only up to the third rank. This is an idea that many mock (I don`t play it myself) but it can be not that easy to "crash through" and it can offer some counterattacking possibilities. The blocking of the Bishop on c8 seems inconsistent with the Caro-Kann Defence opening strategy and if you look at it with "French" eyes having to move the c-pawn twice to get counterplay is just a tempo loser. As far as surprize value goes, the OTB results simply do not support that (certainly at the higher levels, naturally).

  • #33

    Chessflyfischer: Thanks for your insight and presented details! happy.png

  • #34
    pfren wrote:
    RookSacrifice έγραψε:

     Yigor is basically the openings version of StupidGM. Block them both.

    You are wrong.

    StupidGM may be a egitripping psycho with little chess knowledge, but he understands chess way better than Yigor ever did.

     

    LMAO grin.png Thanks to me, StupidGM has got a compliment from IM pfren, unheard of! blitz.pngtongue.png

  • #35

    @pfren LOL

  • #36
    Yigor wrote:

    Chessflyfischer: Thanks for your insight and presented details!

    You are most welcome!

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