Trompowsky Opening ???

It is a great opening if you don't want to prepare for all Black's indian setups. But Black has many fine second moves so you still have to know some theory.

One main idea is to take on f6 and then build a position where your Knights are better than Black's bishops.

The Trompowsky is part of the London Tree Family

- Colle - Closes in Dark Bishop

- London - Puts Dark Bishop on f4

- Torre Attack - Puts Dark Bishop on g5

(Depending on what Black does white might trade off the Bishop. sometimes, it doesn’t)

- Trompowsky - Puts Dark Bishop on g5

(Fully intends on trading off the Bishop for Knight. No matter what Black does)

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I think the Torre Attack is actually the better option, but it can be tougher line to master.

The Torre Attack can transpose into London or Trompowsky depending on situation.

Do people really say "dark bishop" ?

I would have said queenside bishop or darkfield bishop.

I guess "dark bishop" is shorter but its also misleading, since its still a white piece.

The proper term is:

- Dark Squared Bishop and they often abbreviate by saying DSB.

- Light Squared Bishop (LSB)

Some people don’t know the abbreviations and the OP seems like a beginner so I try to type most of it out so they can follow what I am saying.

Higher level players would understand me better with the abbreviations so I would probably use those if I was talking to them.

Multiple British GMs have used the Trompowsky regularly. Look for games by Julian Hodgson (who was probably the biggest expert in this opening) or Michael Adams (who's the overall better player).

@1

Yes, Trompovsky is a good opening.
Carlsen even played it in his World Championship Match with Karjakin:
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1847603

Very good opening, lets you circumvent the KID / grunfeld / benko / nimzo indian. It's good to play with its transpositions... It can transpose into the QGD, the Torre, the richter-veresov, the pirc, and the french burn variation in a variety of places.

Against 2... g6 3. Nc3 is a good line, more interesting than 3. Bxg6 -

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. f3 Bg7 5. e4 - richter-veresov
1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. e5 - pirc, byrne variation

After 2... d5 there are some more veresov and QGD transpositions -
1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 d5 3. e3 c5 4. Nc3 - richter-veresov
1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 d5 3. e3 c5 4. Bxf6 gxf6 5. Nc3 e6 Qh5 - richter-veresov, arguably a better line 
1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 d5 3. e3 e6 4. c4 Be7 5. Nc3 - QGD, modern 
1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 d5 3. e3 e6 4. c4 c6 5. Nc3 - QGD, modern
1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 d5 3. e3 Nbd7 4. c4 e6 5. Nc3 - QGD, modern, knight defense

2... e6 can transpose into alot of different things- 
1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 e6 3. Nd2 d5 4. e4 dxe4 5. Nxe4 - french, burn variation
1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 e6 3. Nf3 - Torre attack (probably the best variation of the Torre)
1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 e6 3. e3 c5 4. Nf3 - Torre attack
1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 e6 3. e3 d5 4. c4 Be7 5. Nc3 - QGD, modern
1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 e6 3. e3 d5 4. c4 c6 5. Nc3 - QGD, modern
1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 e6 3. e3 d5 4. c4 Nbd7 5. Nc3 - QGD, modern, knight defense

It's always satisfying when you can take a nimzo player into a QGD.

I play both KID & Grunfeld.

Black isn’t suppose to play g6 right away against Trompowsky.

If you play g6 to fast, your opponent will do below line:

1.d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 g6 3. Bxf6

Its not a fun line to play as Black.

The better way to play the position is below line:

1.d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 (d5 or d6) 3. e3 Nbd7 4.Nf3 g6

If your going for Grunfeld, you would play 2…d5

If your going for KID, you would play 2…d6

You don’t want to play g6, until your knight on f6 is defended by your other knight.

White doesn't have to play into a KID or Grunfeld in that position. For d6 he can just play a Pirc defense... for d5 he can force black into an inferior Grunfeld-like position, or a QGD / schlecter-slav like position if white prefers it.

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 g6 3. Bxf6 - Trompowsky line, leela scores this +0.07.

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 d6 3. Nc3 Nbd7 4. e4 g6 - Pirc defense, leela scores this +0.41. This looks terrible for black, worse than the mainline Pirc. Here I would just play f4 > e5 and your knight is going to have to retreat to its starting square.

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 d5 3. e3 Nbd7 4. Nf3 g6 5. c4 Bg7 6. Nc3 - here you have to play e6 or c6. If e6 it's just a QGD. If c6 this is some kind of unusual schlecter slav.

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 d5 3. e3 Nbd7 4. Nf3 g6 5. c4 Bg7 6. cxd4 Nxd5 7. e4 - just a bad Grunfeld-like position where there's no Nc3 knight for you to trade off.

Engine eval isn't everything sure, but I don't think a line that scores +0.07 is some major problem in your repertoire, nor do I think it's worth playing a worse version of the Pirc or Grunfeld over (as if the Pirc wasn't already bad enough). The f6 pawn can be pushed to f5 and secure e4 in the Tromp position, it's also a decent defender of the kingside.

@Post #13

The evaluation of the engine in the opening can’t be trusted.

On the surface, it doesn’t seem like big deal, but it actually is a big deal.

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 g6 3. Bxf6

You used Leela to get the +0.07 evaluation.

I use to analyze the above position before Leela was even around.

Engines use to read the position in favor of Black with like -0.10 evaluation score.

It’s all a lie though.

What most people don’t understand is when you play a g6 line.

The E pawn is actually very important in those lines.

KID - For Example - It develops quickly to counter attack in center and main counter attacking move is e5, but if the E Pawn is on F file. What does Black do?

The entire KID Middle game is ruined.

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Similar thing happens with Grunfeld!

The Grunfeld tries to attack with c5.

If white was to take c5 pawn with their d4 pawn, The Black d5 pawn would come under fire.

In normal Grunfeld, The d5 pawn under pressure isn’t a big deal because Black can play e7 to e6 defending the d5 pawn.

In the line we are showing, The E pawn is gone which means the pressure on d5 can become very strong.

Do you see how the E pawn leaving the E File is actually ruining Black Middle Game plans and creating a very awkward way for Black to play?

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This is why your not supposed to play g6 if White DSB can capture the Knight forcing Black to recapture with the E pawn. You have to delay the move.

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You are also correct.

If Black tries for KID, White could try to transpose into Pirc.

This is something the player playing Black must be winning to accept.

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I, personally, don’t like Pirc as much so the way I play it is with d5.

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 d5

If White plays 3.Bxf6 exf6, I play the position like Slav with out playing g6 at all.

It’s better for Black to play it that way.

If White plays 3.e3 Nbd7 4. Nf3 g6

If White plays 5. c4 c6

You can’t play Bg7 because white can take on d5 and Black loses center control.

So you respond to c4 with c6 so if they capture, you can recapture.

Well you're aiming to play the position like a KID or Grunfeld but it is just neither of those... The top move after 4. c4 is to immediately play 4... b6 5. e3 Bb7 and delay Bg7. In some lines you can even play Bh6 and trade off the kingside bishop... It's very hard for white to get a kingside attack going with f5 there, and f5 secures good scope for Bb7. You don't need a counterattack on e5 because white can't push e4 or e5 and play centers around Bb7. Plus, after Bb7 you also don't generally play d5, you play d6. Also you can often plant a knight or bishop on e4 and force a trade, and followup with f7>f5, undoubling the pawns and creating a pawn chain. There are alot of possibilities here... Really it's just a different position, you'd have to learn the position. It's not like it's a knifes-edge engine line, leela likes it for black throughout the lines. It's just not a Grunfeld or KID, I don't know what else to tell you there.

@Post #17

Black doesn’t play Bb7.

Black responses to c4 with c6.

Black responses to c3 with c5.

If white pawn stays on c2, Black responses with c5.

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Not all Grunfeld lines play the C pawn to c5.

It depends on variation White plays

To claim that black cannot play b6 Bb7 here when it is the top line given by leela, it's a simple positional move and we can see why it works is simply nonsense. At depth 15 it's +0.04, basically equal - and not even a sharp engine line. The positions this line is leading to all look very interesting. If you would choose a worse version of the Pirc that's +0.41 or a Grunfeld-like position without Nc3 played yet over this, because you think it's unplayable, I don't know what to tell you. You seem to be rigidly stuck in some dogma that you must play a KID or Grunfeld at all times, chess just doesn't work that way I'm afraid. Honestly looking at this line makes me think g6 is much stronger in response to the Tromp than I thought. 3. Bxf6 does not even look good to me, I stand by 3. Nc3 as the way to go. Work more on the opening is all I can say. 
Carry onward!

We are talking about the Grunfeld & KID lines.

The computer engine “Leela” is trying to play QID.

It’s trying Transpose the position into Queen Indian Position.

b6 + Bb7 or Ba3 trading off are all Queen Indian game plans.

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You are 100% correct.

I am claiming if Black wants Grunfeld or KID position.

They can’t play b6 + Bb7 or Ba3 even if it’s “Leela” top move or any other engines top move.

I also stand by that claim 150%.

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The moves we were talking about are:

1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 d5 3.e3 Nb7

Than you mentioned 4. c4

I was saying to respond with c6.

5. Nf3 g6 6. Nc3 Bg7

Black will eventually play g6 + Bg7.

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Same exact position we are talking about can be reached thru different move order.

After 5.Bg7, Black can play few different moves.

Ne4 is most common.

dxc4 is second most common.

c6 is probably considered third most common, but it is a good move.

I discovered this line from watching top GM games.

It’s fine line.