Trouble with Sveshnikov

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Avatar of williamn27

I don't quite understand a move in the Sveshnikov Sicilian.

Everyone suggests 10...Bxf6, but I don't see why. 

With 10...gxf6, Black gets more pawns in the center and a potential thematic f6-f5 break.

With 10...Bxf6, Black maintains the pawn structure on the kingside but kindly gives White a better minor piece (Bf6 vs Nd5) for nothing, since black cannot play the f5 break easily here, and he doesn't have a second f-pawn to dominate the center later on.

So, what other advantages of 10...Bxf6 did I miss?

Avatar of ChessOath
williamn27 wrote:

So, what other advantages of 10...Bxf6 did I miss?

Advantages of Bxf6? It doesn't leave your King perpetually open for the entire of the rest of the game. I don't need to know this position or be a strong chess player to tell you that.

Avatar of SuirenBoid

its to do with the placement of your bishop on e7 more than anything, after gxf6 you transpose into an inferior mainline 

Avatar of BlunderLots

Rob3rt nailed it.

Avatar of Elroch

I played the Sveshnikov a lot in my OTB chess days, with modest success. I own several books on it and acquired some quite good intuition about the thematic ideas in it.

To put it simply, experience shows that capturing with the bishop allows interesting active possibilities, as exemplified by opening theory from that point. Capturing with the pawn leaves a slightly awkward position. Perhaps it is easier to see if you compare it to the other main line where white exchanges earlier, and black does double the pawn. In this line, the black position with a bishop on g7 is well-coordinated. on e7, it's not as good. It's probably playable, but it is just a bit inferior, and widely spurned. Play it, and either find out or prove the opening books wrong!

Avatar of Kretinovich
On g5 the bishop has a greater scope than on f6 and prepares some kingside actions. I have the sveshnikov as my main weapon against the open sicilian and even doe it requires to memorize lots of theory it's also important to know the thematic ideas. Bg5 and the g6-f5 plan is one of those important ideas
Avatar of BlunderLots
Rob3rtJamesFischer wrote:
BlunderLots wrote:

Rob3rt nailed it.

Is this sarcasm or do you agree with my analysis?

I agree with it. No sarcasm at all.

Avatar of pfren

...gxf6 does not mix well with ...Be7. The bishop belongs to g7 when you take on f6 with a pawn, so you can safely castle and in some lines dislodge the d5 knight with ...Nc6-e7.

White seems to have an easy life after 10...gxf6 with any reasonable move, say 11.c3, 11.c4 or 11.Bd3.

Avatar of fish-bag

IF white had played 9. Bxf6 instead of 9. Nd5 Be7, then gxf6 looks good with both f5 and Bg7 available to black.

Avatar of Nicholas_Shannon80

wow that's mind-boggling how much of a difference it makes to play gxf6 when the white knight is on d5 or not and the black bishop is on e7 or f8...



Avatar of williamn27
Nicholas_Shannon80 wrote:

wow that's mind-boggling how much of a difference it makes to play gxf6 when the white knight is on d5 or not and the black bishop is on e7 or f8...

So, if he captures one move earlier then I should do 9...gxf6 and not 9...Qxf6?

Avatar of Nicholas_Shannon80

Well, I think the mainline is to play 6... a6 first, but in your line my database says gxf6 is better if he takes one move earlier, and your ideas are accurate.

I was just marveling at how much of a difference those tiny details made in the position... one little thing took a good idea into a bad one and there wasn't a 'drastic' change in the positions.

Avatar of pfren
williamn27 wrote:

So, if he captures one move earlier then I should do 9...gxf6 and not 9...Qxf6?

Definitely- and there is a ton of theory following that.

Avatar of SuirenBoid

several tons!

Avatar of Justs99171
Avatar of SuirenBoid

also here there is the Novosibirsk variation Bg7 in place of f5 

Avatar of Justs99171
SuirenBoid wrote:

also here there is the Novosibirsk variation Bg7 in place of f5 

Well, william27 to play gxf6 instead of Bxf6 so that he can play f6-f5. I was just giving examples of black playing gxf6.

Avatar of SuirenBoid

indeed I was just being thorough happy.png 

Avatar of laurateder

williamn27 kirjutas:

I don't quite understand a move in the Sveshnikov Sicilian.

Everyone suggests 10...Bxf6, but I don't see why. 

With 10...gxf6, Black gets more pawns in the center and a potential thematic f6-f5 break.

With 10...Bxf6, Black maintains the pawn structure on the kingside but kindly gives White a better minor piece (Bf6 vs Nd5) for nothing, since black cannot play the f5 break easily here, and he doesn't have a second f-pawn to dominate the center later on.

So, what other advantages of 10...Bxf6 did I miss?

williamn27 kirjutas: I don't quite understand a move in the Sveshnikov Sicilian.Everyone suggests 10...Bxf6, but I don't see why. With 10...gxf6, Black gets more pawns in the center and a potential thematic f6-f5 break.With 10...Bxf6, Black maintains the pawn structure on the kingside but kindly gives White a better minor piece (Bf6 vs Nd5) for nothing, since black cannot play the f5 break easily here, and he doesn't have a second f-pawn to dominate the center later on.So, what other advantages of 10...Bxf6 did I miss?
Avatar of williamn27

So in the gxf6 variation, Black should develop the KB to g7 I guess

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