trying to create a 1.d4 gambit repertoire around Trompowsky & Blackmar-Diemer

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Avatar of gik-tally

I was PLANNING on just booking up with a 1.e4 repertoire, but when I see that the latest king's gambit book is 680 pages, well, that's a lot of study when one includes Smith Morra Gambit, Caro Kann Caveman, 150 attack, Krejcik Aleknine, and Orthoschnapp (looks fugly & not that tactical with just one's queen out in an ugly spot) or Monte Carlo Exchange in the French with BDG for the Scandinavian, but It's looking like BDG & Tromp are much quicker routes to getting booked up.  I need a black repertoire too and am planning Albin Counter and Fritz/Schliemann as shortcuts to Marshall Gambit & 2 Knights to drop Stonewall & Center Counter, though I'm not seeing ANNOYING 1.e4 d5 2.e5 like I used to when I quit playing.

 

The problem I'm having is that there's very little theory for 1.d4 e6 2.c4, the Horowicz Defense and I just wasted a couple hours looking into 2.e4 and French transpositions there, with ZERO info on the tactical lines I'd hope to play... just data dumping off LiChess' database for "best performing lines" (rarely what GMs or Stockfish recommend!).

 

Any super tactical, even gambit lines for 1.d4 e6 would be appreciated as well as recommendations for the Benoni. Stockfish prefers 1.d4 c5 2.d5 heading into King's Indian, semi & Czech Benonis. I couldn't find ANY info on aggressive lines there either. I was getting a headache just trying to rebuild my King's Gambit repertoire having not played in years until THAT became too daunting... wasting days just charting all the Knight Gambit lines. 

 

1.d4 d6 is ANOTHER "what should I do?" line. I was leaning towards the 150 Attack there as I studied it as 1.e4 before and could keep that when I return to open games, but I was curious about the Wade Defense 2.Nf3 vs. 2.c4. I'm not a fan of EVER pushing my c pawn except to gambit it for Nxc3 in the Smith Morra. 2.Nf3 = rapid development. I think I'd rather study that IF there's potential for white to get tactical.

Any suggestions for OTHER lines I should look into (Staunton Gambit? yep!) for my down & dirty low book 1.d4 repertoire are greatly appreciated. If I had my way, I'd play nothing BUT Smith Morra Gambit! I was terrible against Sicilians until I learned that and was in tactical heaven raking +400 points in just in 50 games. (only counting Smith Morra games). 

Avatar of Toldsted

After 1.d4 e6 (a typical way to reach the Dutch without the Staunton Gambit) I years ago decided on 2.e4! The reason is mainly psychological: Black almost never meat this, as few 1.d4 players switch to an 1.e4 opening. And unless Black normally plays the French, (and few does) he will be in new territory.

After 2...e5 you should avoid the theoretical lines (3.Nc3 and 3.Nd2) and go for 3.e5 wich is my choice, or 3.exd5 wich has more venom that you should think. After 3..c5 thare are lots of tactical possibilities and also gambits.

Avatar of Toldsted

After 1.d4 c5 play 2.dxc5!? It is a vary rare line with nice possibilities. Or use your knowledge fram 1.e4 and play 2.e4!? = Sicilian.

Don't waste to mush time on this, as 1...c5 is quite seldom (but if is normal in your opposition, you should of course spend some time).

Avatar of Toldsted

If you decide on 1.d4 d6 2.Nf3 (2.e4 or 2.Bf4 could be alternatives) then be aware of 2...Bg4!? Trompowsky in the back-hand.

Avatar of -BEES-

Since you are playing the BDG you will need to learn lines against the French and Caro-Kann when people decline it anyway.

1.d4 e6 should be met with 2.e4 transposing to a French. I recommend 2...d5 3.Nc3 against the French.

Against the Classical I suggest the Alekhine-Chatard Attack - this is very much in line with the rest of your rep. 1.d4 e6 2.e4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e5 Nfd7 6.h4

Against the Winawer I suggest the 4.a3!? line for now. There are superior lines that are more theory heavy you can look at later but this gets a game of chess. 1.d4 e6 2.e4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.a3 Bxc3 5.bxc3 dxe4 6.Qg4

Against the McCutcheon I suggest the exchange for now. You'll rarely see this at your level so I think it's not worth spending much time on for now. This gets a game of chess.

1.d4 e6 2.e4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Bb4 5.e5 h6 6.exf6 hxg5 7.fxg7 Rg8 8.h4

For the Caro-Kann - I would just go with the Nc3 variation. I think you are kind of forced to do this because of move order -

1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 c6 strongly suggests Nxe4 although the Fantasy Variation is probably more thematically inline with your rep.

Pirc - Byre variation - This fits with the Trompowsky side of your rep. Since you play Bg5 against Nf6 you need a Pirc line that incorporates the move.

1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 d6 3.Nc3 g6 4.e4 Bg7

Benoni - definitely push.

1.d4 c5?! 2.d5 and I will recommend looking at the knight's tour and Bb5+ lines.

1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 c5 3.d5 - this will fit in with the Vaganian Gambit lines of the Trompowsky

Dutch - Nc3

I'm not a big fan of the Staunton. I had a few experiences that put me off of it. Although it is technically a sound gambit, I feel like most Dutch players are well prepared for it. After losing to some 1700s I retired my Staunton for good.

Avatar of rychessmaster1
BDG is garbage, don’t play it
Avatar of gik-tally

WOW! A LOT to digest in -Bees_ reply! THANKS EVERYONE!

As to staunton, I HATED IT trapped behind my pawns in BORING stonewall defense (attack... ALWAYS possible from either side of queen's pawn, but BORING!). Same goes for BDG transpositions declining the center counter,

As to e5 pushes. I hate them from EITHER SIDE! I never beat french or sicilian with e5. it closes things up. I'd rather Bxf7+ trade for a king's knight. I only beat the french with exchange variations and MAYBE urusov gambits for a minute and ONLY beat sicilians (A LOT!!!) with smith morra hating advance, exchange, c3 AND grand prix attacks. FORGET the wing gambit! HIDEOUS!

I much rather develop pices than play with pawns. i hate pawnish games (STONEWALL!). I can't even wrap my head around a simple pawn's ending without the FICS interactive tutorial and even then, will forget it before i ever see one.

if I'm transposing, I'd prefer smith morra, cave man and either orthoschnapp or monte carlo (EXCHANGE! I like exchange! open lines? I just like 'em)

BDG ISN'T trash! It's what a local cab driver beat DEEP THOUGHT with in the 90s! Look at the stats buddy! TOTAL DOMINATION!

the stats for BDG under 2000 aren't terrible either, and i'll decide for myself what I like. i  ignore all the gambit haters that would DARE to try and talk me out of "unsound my hiney!" smith morra.

I bet the BDG stats improve when lines are carefully chosen. I've been leaning towards moves that perform best over boring GM recommendations and boring bean counting stockboy. Oh to have a copy of junior!!!

I'll get on all that homework and see what looks interesting. I'm liking what sounds like "unified repertoire" notes that sound like transposing everything to a few pet lines. fortunately, the tromp and BDG should cover MOST of my needs, but i just hate losing to trench weasels (hypermoderns).

main lines? nope! too positional, i don't get 'em. that's why i'm not liking the orthoschnapp even if i never tried it. that lone queen on b3 or whatever makes no sense to me and looks more like a target for development attacks, and i want to be doing all those.

thanks again. there's a few DAYS research in this already. UGH! i mean HOORAY!

 

 

 

 

Avatar of gik-tally

looking further into the "main line" under 2000,  after 1.e4 d5 2.d4 c6 3.e5 bf5 4.h4, a less common reply to take an opponent out of book, the BDG is looking awesome here! this is center ounter/BDG/carokann/advance tal variation. looks solid enough to TRY. 

remember, i'm just looking for a "quick fix" repertoire so i stop getting flat footed by move 8 even in lines i used to know. 

my ultimate goal is 

king's gambit

orthoschnapp, monte carlo exchange, urusove gambit or even winawer french

cave man carokan DESTROYS by move 15 in MOST lines with only the (wasn't a main line when i studied it for months) "main line" which only gives black equality!!! (if he even KNOWS it! the theory didn't when i studied, and just the THREAT of cave manning made a caro stop challenging me in the past)

blackmar diemer center counter (tried the tennison gambit, only good as a surprise weapon)

krejcik alekhine (i like wrecking castles. i BEAT a very angry deferred fisher defender going for the muzio Bxf7+ recently once i unpinned my knight with an Ne5+ to grab his bishop and just keep threatening in between developing moves!!!)

150 attack - easy system i was doing OK with

and as black, sticking with planned albin counter

vector gambit english (reversed smith morra? absolutely!!!)

2 knights 

marshall gambit

after toying with fritz/schlieman & whatever i need for 4 knights scotch etc.

 

I live for gambits. if i'm not kicking butt by move 20, my heart isn't even in it it waiting for position to boa constrict me.

 

 

Avatar of gik-tally

I REALLY like being able to pull STATS on gambit haters. HAHAHAHAHA!!!

who plays boring butt grandmasters with their boring positional lines no one ever plays in the real world?

Avatar of rychessmaster1
This is the caro kann….not the bdg…
Avatar of gik-tally

-BEES- rules theory 101!!!

all hail bees!

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!

Avatar of gik-tally

It becomes a BDG on move #2, then keeps transposing.

transpositions make my head hurt. is there an online transposition seeker?

Avatar of gik-tally

Blackmar-Diemer Gambit 1.d4 d5 2. e4

(I used 1.e4 d5 2.d4 move order as I faced in Scandinavians

White offers his e4 pawn in exchange for quick development and open lines. At the professional level this move is considered somewhat suspect, but black must be careful if he chooses to take the pawn as there are many traps in this opening. 2 ...dxe4, accepting the pawn, is the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit. Black has three ways to decline the gambit.

e6 transposes to the French Defence
c6 transposes to the Caro-Kann Defence
Nc6 transposes to the Nimzowitsch Defence
c5 is a largely unexplored countergambit.

I imagine theory books cover all these "main line" transpositions, or offers exit plans

Avatar of gik-tally

Here are the notes I made before this thread if anyone is as interested in trees as I am

1.d4

1…e5?! 2.dxe5 Englund/Charlick Gambit (considered terrible)

   2…d6 3.Nf3 Hartlaub Charlick Gambit

      3…Bg4 4.Bg5 += 1.7

         4…Be7 5.Bxe7 Nxe7 6.exd6 cxd6 7.e3 0-0 8.Be2 d5 9.0-0 += 2.2

         4…Qd7 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.exd6 bxd6 7.Nb5 h6 8.Nxd6+ cxd6 9.Bf4 += 1.6

      3…Nc6 4.bg5 f6 5.exf6 Nxf6 6.e3 Be7 7.Nc3 Be6 8.Bd3 += 1.9

   2…Nc6 3.Nf3 Englund Gambit

      3…Qe7 4.Bg5

         4…Qb4+ 5.Nc3 Qxb2 6.Bd2 Bb4 7.Rb1 Qa3 8.Rb3 Qa5 9.e4 +- 2.6

         4…Qc5 5.Be3

            5…Qb4+ 6.Nc3

               6…Qxb2 7.Bd2 Bb4 8.Rb1 Qa3 9.Nd5 Na5 10.Rb5 Bxd2+ 11.Qxd2 +=

               6…Qa5 7.Qd3 Nxe5 8.Nxe5 Qxe5 9.Bd4 Qa5 10.a3 Ne7 11.b4 +- 2.5

            5…Qe7 6.Nc3 Nxe5 7.Nd5 Qd6 8.Nxe5 c6 9.Qd4 Qxd5 10.Qxd5 += 1.6

      3…f6 4.e4 fxe5 5.Bcf Nf6 6.Ng5 d5 7.exd5 Na5 8.Bd3 +=1.6

1…c5 Benoni Defense

   2.dxc5 e6 =

   2.e3 =

   2.Nc3 g6 3.e4 Bg7 4.Nf4 Bxc3!? 5.bxc3 Nf6 = Schmid Benoni

   2.d5 +.7 and StockFish’s favorite

      2…f5

      2…e6

      2…eg

      2…Nf6

      2…d6 3.c4 g6 4.Nc3 Bg7 5.Nf3 Bxc3!? 6.bxc3 Nf6 King’s Indian Benoni

      2…e5 3.e4 d6 4.Nc3 Semi-Benoni

         4…g6

         4…a6

         4…Be7 5.Nf3 Bg4 6.h3 += Czech Benoni

         4…Nf6 ‘best’ but not popular 5.Nf3 Be7 6.Be2 0-0 7.0-0 +=

1…e6

   2.e4 transposing to French = (best scoring, trying to gambit looks bad)

      2…d5 3.Nc3

         3…Nc6 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.e5 Ne4 6.Ne2 f6 7.Nf4 Bd7 8.Bd3 fxe5 9.dxe5 Qe7 10.0-0 +=

         3…dxe4 4.Nxe4

            4…Nf6 5.

            4…Bd7 5.

            4…Nd7 5.

            4…Be7 5.Nf3 stats are worst for SF recommendations here

               5…Nd7 6.Bd3 Ngf6 7.Qe2 (performs best)

                  7…c5 8.Nxf6+ +.8

                     8…Nxf6 9.dxc5

                        9…Bxc5 10.Bg5

                           10…Qa5+ 11.c3

                              11…Be7 12.Ne5 0-0 13.h4 Rd8 14.0-0-0 +1.4

                              11…Bd6 12.0-0 Bd7 13.0-0 h6 14.Bxf6 gxf6 15.a4 +1.0

                           10…h6 11.Bf4 0-0 12.0-0-0 Qb6 13.Ne5 +=

                        9…Qa5+ 10.Bd2 Qxc5 11.0-0-0 0-0 12.Kb1 +1.2

                        9…0-0 10.Bd2 bxc5 11.0-0-0 b5 12.Ng5 +=

                     8…Bxf6 9.d5 Nb6 10.Bb5+ Kf8 11.dxe6 Bxe6 12.0-0 h6 13.Re1 +=

                  7…Nxe4 8.

                  7…0-0 8.

               5…Nf6 6.Nxf6+ Bxf6 7.Bd3

         3…Bb4

         3…Nf6

   2.c4 Horowitz Defense (2.e4 leads to Sicilian & Benoni)

      2…c5 3.d5

         3…Nf6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.h3 +=

         3…exd5 4.cxd5 d6 5.e4 g6 6.Nf3 Bg7 7.h3 Nf6 8.Nfd2 Nbd7 9.Be2 a6 10.a4 +=

      2…Bb4+ Keres Defense

      2…b6

      2…d5 French Defense

         3.Nf3

         3.Nc3

      2…f5 Dutch

      2…Nf6

1…d6! Queen’s Pawn (see 1.e4 d6 too)

   2.Nf3 Bg4 3.c4 Nd7 4.e4 Bxf3 5.Qxf3 g6 6.Nc3 Bg7 = Wade Defense

   2.c4 e5 3.Nf3 e4 4.Ng5 f5 5.nc3 c6 6.Nh3 nf6 = KID/QG etc.

 

   2.e4 Pirc/Modern “best” according to SF (150 attack?)

      2…g6 3.c4 “best”

      2…Nf6 3.Nc3

         3…Nbd7

         3…c6

         3…e5 4.Nf3

            4...Nbd7

            4…exd4 (best, but rare)

         3…g6

            4.f4 Bg7 Austrian Attack

               5.e5 Nfd7 immediate kingside attack, scores worse

               5.Nf3 (SF’s choice & scores better +.5)

                  5…c5 queenside counter attack

                  5…0-0 Main Line

            4.Be3 (SF’s choice & scores best too)

               4…Bg7 5.Qd2 c6 6.Bh6 Bxh6 7.Qxh6 e5 8.Nf3

               4…c6 5.Qd2 150 Attack

                 5…Nbd7 6.

                 5…b5 6.Bd3

                    6…Nbd7 7.Nf3

                       7…Bg7

                       7…Qc7

                       7…e5

                    6…Bg7 7.Nf3 0-0 8.0-0 Nbd7 9.h3 +=

1…g6

1…f5 2.e5!? Staunton Gambit

1…Nf6 2.Bg5!? Trompowsky

1…d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 5.Nxf3 Blackmar-Diemer Gambit

Avatar of gik-tally

TRYING to follow the "main lines last" school of thought on graphing. SF stands for stockfish, as does stockboy in a previous comment. until it becomes a problem, I'm happy with my 1.d4 e5!? theory for now as it really does look unsound and is likely super rare anyways.

integrating bees notes with mine will take a day or more. likely a week as i start going down the rabbit holes looking for lines to buy books for. right now, it's

 

The Blackmar-Deimer Gambit: A Modern Guide To A Fascinating Chess Opening (Everyman Chess) by Christoph Scheerer BEST book! the 2200 cab driver said the original OOP$$$ keybook is the ONLY book needed, but this one and sawyer's site ought to be enough to start with

Winning With The Trompowsky by Peter Wells is a pretty good book - great explanation of the ideas, opening books are often hard-going but that wasn't the case with this book at all. “the tromp bible”

not looking for a lifetime repertoire, just a quick one to book up on so i can start playing with confidence again.

Avatar of rychessmaster1
What do you have for 1. d4 Nf6
Avatar of rychessmaster1
All BDGs suck after 1…Nf6
Avatar of rychessmaster1
Oh right tromp…fair
Avatar of rychessmaster1
d4 d5 e4 dxe4 Nc3 Nf6 f3 Bf5 is just crappy for white though
Avatar of rychessmaster1
Just play 2. Bg5 vs d5 as well, it’s an underrated line and leagues better than the BDG