What do I do against Caro-Kann pawn structures?

Also many good points by Llama

Smh

Also when I play against this sort of structure c3 is either a little slow, or I don't understand why it's played so much. I'd rather play 9.Qe2, then Bf4 or Bg5 and center the rooks and only play c3 if I think it's necessary.

But yeah, the caro-slav structure can be really solid. Black can plop a knight on d5 and dare you to do something. One thing is you use your extra space on the kingside for an attack. Another is you make a few minor piece trades and go for jiu jitsu in the endgame. Karpov has some nice endgames like this.

Ok, joking aside. Honestly I do always play 1.Nf3 so I’m not familiar with the caro-kann. However this is what Rueben Fine in his book then ideas behind the chess openings’ says (I know some people say this book is outdated, blah blah whatever. The ideas in most the openings are still the same, especially at the 2000ish rating level like you @SNUDOO) “...However, it is subject to the theoretical disadvantage of supporting a center pawn (d5) not with another center pawn...but with a side pawn. It becomes easier for white to gain an upper hand in the centre... After the normal 2.d4 d5 white has four distinct motifs...

1. 3. Nc3, maintaining the tension... 3...dxe4 is virtually forced. (Both 3...e6 and 3...Nf6 4. e5 lead to unfavorable lines of the French since black must eventually play ...c5 and has this lost a move.)” After 3... dxe5 4.Nxe5 black has three options

A. 4...Nf6 5. Nxf6 exf6 

with this pawn structure, giving white an endgame advantage (idk figure the rest out on your own lol) 

B. 4... Bf5 5. Ng3 Bg6. The black QB may be able to help black with pressure against the white queenside so it is a good idea to exchange it. Eventually white will get a superior pawn structure and white will have the advantage. There are there points for white to remember. The position of the black QB must be undermined to force the exchange; white will get this pawn structure under favorable circumstances 

;he can exploit this pawn structure by avoiding unnecessary exchanges. Blacks role is passive and cannot put any obstacles in whites way and must await events as they come. White may take his time. Whites plan goes as such.

C: 4...Nd7 (or 4...e6) is a less forceful version of line A. The second pawn structure is reached. 

2. 3. exd5 exd5 4. c4 is the attacking line. White attacks blacks center and black must play passively or play ...e6 sometime blocking his bishop.

3. 3. exd5 cxd5 4. Bd3 Nc6  5. c3 with 

white will place a knight on e5. (...f6 just clearly weakens squares) whites plan here is to attack the kingside while black will fianchetto his KB and attack on the queenside. 

4. 3. e5. Ummm... just don’t play it. 3... Bf5 4. Bd3 Bxd3 5. Qxd3 e6=bad black will play ...c5 with -+ 

5. 3. f3 (a little trick but can’t really be recommend to play) 3... dxe4 4. fxe4 e5! 5. Nf3 exd4 6. Bc4! When white exploits the f7 square. After 3... e6 though transposes you French.

Sorry about a lot of this writing being vague, more theory than ideas, kind of pointless, etc. It’s just that once I started writing it I didn’t really want to stop even though I realized a lot of it isn’t very helpful. Still hope something was helpful.

And O...M...G... I just wrote all that on my phone. It’s hard to write detailed things when you are trying to write as little as possible but still give a very detailed answer. 👻 😉 

That literally took me 40 minutes to think about and write

The Caro is complex. Let’s say we consider this the starting position after 4. Nxe4

The important moves are Bf5,Nd7, and the modern Nf6. After Bf5 you go Ng3 and h4, with an attack on the kingside if Black castles there and play with c4 on the queenside if Black goes long after Qc7. You castle long regardless. After Nd7 White can fight for an edge with Ng5 and precise development. note that after h6 Ne6!! Is the point of White’s play. After Nf6 you should take and go c3. Black normally takes with the e pawn and castles kingside. You can either play for a small edge safely with short castles or aggressively castle queenside. There are some modern lines where Black seems to be fine after h5 though. Another modern direction against the Caro is the two knights.

Well...in this position I definitely see a potential Greek Gift setup. I’ve noticed people don’t expect it as much when it comes from openings other than the London. Which you’ve almost transposed into btw. So yeah you could get really aggressive here and go for mate. Id probably start with Ne5. He won’t like it being there and there’s pretty much no way for him to move it that doesn’t involve him having to move his knight on f6...which can open bxh7 or some other form of attack on the king. So after the ne5 depending on what black does maybe push f4. Followed by a rook lift. Maybe storm with h pawn. 

in the first diagram, why doesn't black just take the knight after white plays h4?

Thanks

@mako_cat that's a lot to read, I'll read the other half later

@fizzyband thanks for the input on the mainstream Caro. I might try it sometime, as my dad has a 1999 book by Schiller that advocates the Caro. 

Ok tell me when you do read it and if it was helpful at all

So far

Yes, kinda

Maybe in that position it's good for black to capture, but the idea is you're removing the knight, and in general weakening the light squares around black's king. It wasn't mean to be something specific to that position, but just some general ideas if you weren't aware of them.

For example here's a position that you might get from a 3...exd French

This time he engine will tell you Black can't capture the knight.

@llama yes. Whites rook wasn't on h1 so I didn't see the point of the fishing rod tactic.

Ok, you're not understanding when I tell you it's about the light squares.

Last position I'll post.

In this position the engine will also tell you that white is winning after black captures the knight.

OK i see now... After hxg5 hxg5 Bxg5 Qh5 gets the piece back at the very least.

I guess it's my fault for using poor example positions, but yeah, the point wasn't to show you a whole position, just an idea.

My engine says about -2 depth 32

At no depth does my engine show white not winning. But here's 40 just because

25 moves in though. On move one, before 1...hxg5 is even played stockfish says -2. However, after hxg5 the position is super hard for black to defend