what do I do against people that play 2. Nf3 against 1. e4 e6

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phyrru

So,  sometimes when I play against people that dont know the french, this happens and I dont know what to do

IMKeto
[COMMENT DELETED]
IMKeto

 

phyrru

?

 

darkunorthodox88

2.nf3 on its own is not an independent line. if played with 3.nc3 it shows intent to enter a two knights' french where white plans to take dxc5, and play for quick piece play, for example, bd3, bf4 qd2 or qe2, 0-0-0.  these move orders have the added benefit of completely avoiding the french winamer since bb4 doesnt pin anything after 2. or 3.nc3 without d4.

 

one way to deal with this is

these lines are ok for both sides but black prob has the easier game so as you dont allow white to double your c-pawns or play e6-e5 too soon (the reason being the white bishop will likely go on c4ad be a monster if you do). the white position resembles the dunst opening but committing e6 and nf3 likely benefits black as common wisdom there states white should almost always ng3 before nf3 because of h5 reasons.

 

you can of course play 3...nf6 if you like where once again 2.nf3 on its own has limited independent value.

Yigor
qqpp1 wrote:

So,  sometimes when I play against people that dont know the french, this happens and I dont know what to do

 

Hit your head grin.png with your chessbook chessbook.png cuz 2. Nf3 is a quite sound move for white vs French. peshka.png

drmrboss

I remember that confusion when I started playing chess. At about age 8, I read the opening book about French defense, I was expecting my opponent would play 1. e4 e6 2. d4.   Instead he played 1.e4 e6 2. Nf3 and I dont know what to do, so I played 2..... d6 and later player 3. ...c5.( cos  alternative pattern I know is Sicilian). 

Later I played. ... 2......d5!

Since that time I  play .2... d5 3... c5 when ever I have a chance to play.

AmanRocks789

You can play 2...c5 transposing to Sicilian Kan/Taimanov Variation..

darkunorthodox88
Miaoiao wrote:
darkunorthodox88 hat geschrieben:

2.nf3 on its own is not an independent line. if played with 3.nc3 it shows intent to enter a two knights' french where white plans to take dxc5, and play for quick piece play, for example, bd3, bf4 qd2 or qe2, 0-0-0.  these move orders have the added benefit of completely avoiding the french winamer since bb4 doesnt pin anything after 2. or 3.nc3 without d4.

 

one way to deal with this is

 

these lines are ok for both sides but black prob has the easier game so as you dont allow white to double your c-pawns or play e6-e5 too soon (the reason being the white bishop will likely go on c4ad be a monster if you do). the white position resembles the dunst opening but committing e6 and nf3 likely benefits black as common wisdom there states white should almost always ng3 before nf3 because of h5 reasons.

 It is not wisdom, and not common, it makes no sense, and I suspect you mean something else than you wrote.

you can of course play 3...nf6 if you like where once again 2.nf3 on its own has limited independent value.

just because you dont know it, or you dont get it means nothing, this isnt about you.

 

this is common knowledge in the dunst opening. its one of the main things drilled into you, in the definitive book on the dusnt opening "the knight on the left 1.nc3". ng3 is almost always played first, to avoid h5, due to nxh5 (duh!). ideally if black will insist on h5, white must get the bishop out , and play h3, so the knight safely jumps back to e2. 

 

you added nothing to this conversation by being ignorantly incorrect.

Yigor
Miaoiao wrote to darkunorthodox88:

 You have a history of insults and of arrogance here. I wish you could become a seeker of truth, as many others on chess.com, but right now I see no signs of that.

 

Take it easy, buddy, wink.png he's far from being the worst trolling clown here. tongue.png

darkunorthodox88
Miaoiao wrote:

No, I don't take it easy, this guy must get to know where his boundaries are. I do the same to anybody else on chess.com.

If someone misbehaves, I tell him. This does not make me a lot of friends, I know, but this is not my fault but the fault of the indifference of most others.

Chess.com is supposed to be a friendly place of smart people. Because chess teaches to be serious and humble.

will you shut up already? i explicitly told you i wasnt talking with you at all anymore, i give the courtesy to make a one time exception and you begin this bullshit again. 

 a) what part of, nf3 blocks the queens attack of the h5 square dont you get? ng3+unblocked queen means h5 is discouraged. the knight goes on g3 90%+ of the time and certainly so here. early c3 is fairly harmless here since black has the luxury of playing a6 when the knight does move and attempts the bb5 pin.

b)the pin is virtually never played in the dusnt unless black plays e5, NOT e6. this is to begin a kingside attack where the knights have virtually the whole fifth rank on the kingside. 

 

you didnt write the authoritative book on the dusnt. 

 

like i said, im not engaging you. you literally end up tailing me on forums half the time. go away.

 

DrSpudnik

2... d5 If they play Nc3 DO NOT CHASE THE KNIGHT.

Just play Nf6.

darkunorthodox88
DrSpudnik wrote:

2... d5 If they play Nc3 DO NOT CHASE THE KNIGHT.

Just play Nf6.

theory (including watson on his iconic book on the french) put 3.d5 chasing the knight as achieving equality. only reason you shoudnt play that move is if you just cant be bothered to learn how to play those variations, in which case as you and i have mentioned nf6 works just fine. (not the answer a winawer only player would want to hear though.)

 

 

 

ggtyty

Miaoiao wrote:

Because of the sharp variant I mentioned above, I would play against 

1.e4 e6, 2.Nf3 d5, 3. Nc3

NOT 3....d4, but

3....d5.

Then, after

4.e5 Nfd7

and c5 Black has a good game.

For instance, after

5.d4 c5

we enter a variation of the French which is considered as good for Black.

You already played d5 on move 2. I am sure you meant 3...e5 and not 3...d5. Anyway, I would personally play 3.exd5 and not 3.Nc3 as white.

darkunorthodox88
Miaoiao wrote:
darkunorthodox88 hat geschrieben:
Miaoiao wrote:

No, I don't take it easy, this guy must get to know where his boundaries are. I do the same to anybody else on chess.com.

If someone misbehaves, I tell him. This does not make me a lot of friends, I know, but this is not my fault but the fault of the indifference of most others.

Chess.com is supposed to be a friendly place of smart people. Because chess teaches to be serious and humble.

will you shut up already? Why would I? Because of you?  i explicitly told you i wasnt talking with you at all anymore, i give the courtesy to make a one time exception and you begin this bullshit again. 

You did not refute a bit of what I wrote, see my comments below.

 a) what part of, nf3 blocks the queens attack of the h5 square dont you get?

The pawn on h5 is in itself not a threat, since Black has played e6, after h4 there is no pin with Bg4.

 ng3+unblocked queen means h5 is discouraged. the knight goes on g3 90%+ of the time and certainly so here. early c3 is fairly harmless here since black has the luxury of playing a6 when the knight does move and attempts the bb5 pin.

Let's see: 1.e4 e6, 2.Nf3 d5, 3.Nc3 d4, 4.Ne2 c5, 6.c3 Nc6, 7.cxd4 cxd4, 8.Qa4 is a sharp battle. And not harmless at all for Black.   

b)the pin is virtually never played in the dusnt unless black plays e5,

But this is not a dunst!

NOT e6. this is to begin a kingside attack where the knights have virtually the whole fifth rank on the kingside. 

 

you didnt write the authoritative book on the dusnt. 

Did you?

 

like i said, im not engaging you. you literally end up tailing me on forums half the time. go away.

 

I am giving my doubts to oversimplifications.  If you can't stand a fair and objective discussion, YOU should leave, not me.

you should shut up, bc this bullshit spamming of yours happen. do not respond to anything i post, i promise, i wont mention you (lol why would i ?) i can respam this by replying to all nonsense but i wont.

-everyone and their mother that plays the dusnt knows that h4 is a last resort agaisnt the h pawn thrust. it radically weakens g4, and while e6 does block the bishop, black has a much easier time simply playing e5 than white has in undoing the g4 weakness, especially since the white bishop DOES not belong on e2 in the dusnt.

-in that line, you dont play nc6 so early, you play 5....nf6! instead, whereas after 6. e5 nfd7 7.cxd5 cxd5 8.nexd5 nxe5! and in this position database statistics despite a small sample size of about 15 games, the results are telling. white wins like 7% of games vs blacks 41%. that d-pawn isolani is surely to blame. and now if after 5...nf6 if black goes ng3, then black plays 6...a6 first (now the point of e6 is felt a6+e6 makes the light squared bishop silly. then  7....h5

-im agreeing on a well known authority on the matter, you are disagreeing, the burden of proof is on YOU, not me. i play the dusnt a good third of my games as white, my experience is one of both agreement and deferment to even stronger nc3 players that agree with keilback.

darkunorthodox88
Miaoiao wrote:

You ridicule yourself, unortho, just compare our ratings.

says the child who starts  penis measuring contest of online chess ratings....with a guy whose online rating ever on chess.com is based on 3 games of some very obscure chess variant. THIS is why i told you to shut up. this post adds nothing to the OPs question , and then you are gonna begin with these replies that take up half the page to say 3 sentences.

darkunorthodox88
Miaoiao wrote:

Your rudeness is astonishing. My answers to your posts were short and up to the point, and you did not refer in any way to them.

I think you have a low rating in OTB chess. 

2201 is low to you?

Yigor
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
Miaoiao wrote:

You ridicule yourself, unortho, just compare our ratings.

says the child who starts  penis measuring contest of online chess ratings...

 

LoL It reminded me my childhood. grin.pngtongue.pngpeshka.png

darkunorthodox88
Miaoiao wrote:

The problem with you, unortho, is, you consider the forum as your property, and when someone asks you a polite question, then you insult him. You are a sick person, and I leave now.

yes proletariat, now stay quiet conrade and further serve the motherland

Yigor
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
Miaoiao wrote:

The problem with you, unortho, is, you consider the forum as your property, and when someone asks you a polite question, then you insult him. You are a sick person, and I leave now.

yes proletariat, now stay quiet conrade and further serve the motherland

 

New motto, appropriate for chess.com: 

Patzers of all countries unite! 

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