What do you play against these triangle defenses in the Closed Catalan - Chess Forums - Page 3

DasBurner

Jun 24, 2021

0

#41

nighteyes1234 wrote:

TwoMove wrote:

As mentioned it is quite the opposite. In the closed catalan, if black doesn't play the disruptive Bb4ch Bd2 Bd6/Be7, black has a position which just looks solid, but has no counter-play .

On the other hand in open version there are lines where black can neutralise the Bg2 directly, and play the c5 break. Straightforward for black, and hard for a club player playing white to get anything. Alternatively very sharp lines.

Bingo...as usual. 'Catalan' player usually hides behind the engine and acts like he is smart which is regurgitate clickbait . I play c5...which is about -.3 to -.4. One of thee most overrated offenses...easy to win.

who are you addressing? i didnt say anything about engine evaluation

DasBurner

Jun 24, 2021

0

#42

B1ZMARK wrote:

BestSell wrote:

B1ZMARK wrote:

IMBacon wrote:

Where are the pawn breaks?

I favor Nfd2 over Nbd2 because it covers e4 twice, and after Nc3, white covers e4 three times.

I just want to point out that Nfd2 doesn't really work if Black has his bishop on e7 there (instead of d6). Because of this line:

Nfd2 leaves the d4 pawn weak, so Black is able to liquidate some pawns because of it, making the game much easier Black.

(Just something to be aware of, regarding the Be7 vs. Bd6 difference.)

hmm, I forgot what white's supposed to do there. All I know is that white should probably push c5 if black can't stop e4, but it was for a specific case.

instead of 11. a4 wouldn't 11. qa4 guard the pawn and the knight after qb6?

DasBurner

Jun 24, 2021

0

#43

BestSell wrote:

Rapidly develop your pieces. Black is likely going to liquidate the center soon enough, with exchanges and/or a c6-c5 push. So the main thing is to have your pieces on good squares for when the center pawns explode, and the dust settles.

Also, keep an eye out for exchanges or recaptures that may saddle yourself, or your opponent, with an IQP.

Sometimes playing with (or against) the IQP can be the one minor difference between winning and losing.

might seem like a stupid question but as white you want black to have the Isolated Queen Pawn right? I switched from e4 to d4 quite recently so Im not that experienced with the structures and everything yet

PerpetuallyPinned

Jun 24, 2021

0

#44

B1ZMARK wrote:

IMBacon wrote:

Where are the pawn breaks?

I favor Nfd2 over Nbd2 because it covers e4 twice, and after Nc3, white covers e4 three times.

While everyone is covering e4, who's covering d4?

cricket7890

Jun 24, 2021

0

#45

nighteyes1234 wrote:

TwoMove wrote:

As mentioned it is quite the opposite. In the closed catalan, if black doesn't play the disruptive Bb4ch Bd2 Bd6/Be7, black has a position which just looks solid, but has no counter-play .

On the other hand in open version there are lines where black can neutralise the Bg2 directly, and play the c5 break. Straightforward for black, and hard for a club player playing white to get anything. Alternatively very sharp lines.

Bingo...as usual. 'Catalan' player usually hides behind the engine and acts like he is smart which is regurgitate clickbait . I play c5...which is about -.3 to -.4. One of thee most overrated offenses...easy to win.

c5 is too comfortable for white:

cricket7890

Jun 24, 2021

0

#46

nighteyes1234 wrote:

TwoMove wrote:

As mentioned it is quite the opposite. In the closed catalan, if black doesn't play the disruptive Bb4ch Bd2 Bd6/Be7, black has a position which just looks solid, but has no counter-play .

On the other hand in open version there are lines where black can neutralise the Bg2 directly, and play the c5 break. Straightforward for black, and hard for a club player playing white to get anything. Alternatively very sharp lines.

Bingo...as usual. 'Catalan' player usually hides behind the engine and acts like he is smart which is regurgitate clickbait . I play c5...which is about -.3 to -.4. One of thee most overrated offenses...easy to win.

Also I will defend the Catalan play me with your "refutation"

TwoMove

Jun 24, 2021

0

#47

I don't think a Tarrasch player would be uncomfortable playing black either, in line above. It's a quite typical IQP position, which Spassky played as black quite often. After an eventual Nc5, he was quite happy playing BxN, because the knights are quite useful in the resulting positons.

sndeww

Jun 24, 2021

0

#48

PerpetuallyPinned wrote:

B1ZMARK wrote:

IMBacon wrote:

Where are the pawn breaks?

I favor Nfd2 over Nbd2 because it covers e4 twice, and after Nc3, white covers e4 three times.

While everyone is covering e4, who's covering d4?

You don’t need to because black isn’t able to attack D4 favorably

sndeww

Jun 24, 2021

0

#49

White doesn’t even need to transpose into a tarrasch. He can just keep the tension. ...c5 shouldn’t favor black a lot anyways because whites bishop is able to retain pressure along the entire diagonal.

PerpetuallyPinned

Jun 24, 2021

0

#50

B1ZMARK wrote:

PerpetuallyPinned wrote:

B1ZMARK wrote:

IMBacon wrote:

Where are the pawn breaks?

I favor Nfd2 over Nbd2 because it covers e4 twice, and after Nc3, white covers e4 three times.

While everyone is covering e4, who's covering d4?

You don’t need to because black isn’t able to attack D4 favorably

I was late responding. I thought #37 covered this. Not sure if #39 really answered. I think Black accomplishes a little something there.

sndeww

Jun 24, 2021

0

#51

PerpetuallyPinned wrote:

B1ZMARK wrote:

PerpetuallyPinned wrote:

B1ZMARK wrote:

IMBacon wrote:

Where are the pawn breaks?

I favor Nfd2 over Nbd2 because it covers e4 twice, and after Nc3, white covers e4 three times.

While everyone is covering e4, who's covering d4?

You don’t need to because black isn’t able to attack D4 favorably

I was late responding. I thought #37 covered this. Not sure if #39 really answered. I think Black accomplishes a little something there.

That’s because I am extremely lazy and I will not go out of my way to even crack open a book to prove my point, so if I can’t I just dont.

TwoMove

Jun 24, 2021

0

#52

B1ZMARK wrote:

White doesn’t even need to transpose into a tarrasch. He can just keep the tension. ...c5 shouldn’t favor black a lot anyways because whites bishop is able to retain pressure along the entire diagonal.

It seems that if white doesn't play c4xd5 transposing directly to the Tarrasch and plays Bg2, black can play c5xd4 0.0 Bc5, then black achieves a nice version of Dubov's Tarrasch line.

It's a funny thing with the Tarrasch. White players are quite certain that they can get a nice advantage, but when it comes down to details it is hard to get much at all. I wished had picked it up as a young player, you can develop and get your king safe, without needing to know half the theory of openings like the Nimzo.

sndeww

Jun 24, 2021

0

#53

I’ve always scored terribly against the tarrasch anyways so I don’t like transpositions into it

PerpetuallyPinned

Jun 24, 2021

0

#54

Avrukh mentioned something that surprised him with Tarrasch lines. I wasn't wanting to go hunt for it, just thought maybe it was specific IQP positions. But since I was looking at another Black IQP line (self imposed below), I might as well.

Black is behind in development. Not sure what the urge for this IQP would be.

nighteyes1234

Jun 24, 2021

0

#55

cricket7890 wrote:

c5 is too comfortable for white:

I was referring to Benoni. 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 e6 3 g3 (Bb4 4 Bd2 Be7 5 Bg2 c5)

I got 6 Nf3 , 7 O-O, etc...no d5...Im pretty sure 3 g3 c5 can attest to that...and a nice thank you for not playing d5.

sndeww

Jun 24, 2021

0

#56

do you mean this, or the sideline I gave?

TwoMove

Jun 24, 2021

0

#57

PerpetuallyPinned wrote:

Avrukh mentioned something that surprised him with Tarrasch lines. I wasn't wanting to go hunt for it, just thought maybe it was specific IQP positions. But since I was looking at another Black IQP line (self imposed below), I might as well.

Black is behind in development. Not sure what the urge for this IQP would be.

I am not sure why black would want to play like that either. Black took two moves to play c5, and Nd7 is badly placed.

PerpetuallyPinned

Jun 24, 2021

0

#58

Tarrasch surprise was vaguely about "lines with 9.Bg5 c4! I could find no advantage,..." referencing Chapter 25, which is Albin Counter Gambit. 24 is Tarrasch & I found it...concluding the lines at that time were very drawing. That book is now 13 years old, so there's that. I guess there was some confusion as the Grischuk-Gelfand game he referenced was a Semi-Slav, the others Tarrasch-Prague

PerpetuallyPinned

Jun 24, 2021

0

#59

Pg 359 of the old 1.d4 book for anyone that has it

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c5 4.cxd5 exd5 5.g3 Nc6 6.Bg2 Nf6 7.O-O Be7 8.Nc3

B) 8...O-O

9.Bg5 comes up, 9...cxd4 intentions and found 9...c4 10.Ne5 Be6 to be the drawish issue for White

Palac-Guseinov & Arencibia-Bruzon games he references as studying

Then goes into Grischuk-Gelfand (c6 was played) & Malakhatko-Meinhardt (yes Tarrasch Prague)

Maybe there's another Gelfand win over Grischuk I don't have and I'm looking at the wrong game?

He gives year/locations for all other games

PerpetuallyPinned

Jun 24, 2021

0

#60

pfren wrote:

PerpetuallyPinned έγραψε:

Avrukh mentioned something that surprised him with Tarrasch lines. I wasn't wanting to go hunt for it, just thought maybe it was specific IQP positions. But since I was looking at another Black IQP line (self imposed below), I might as well.

Black is behind in development. Not sure what the urge for this IQP would be.

With zero pressure against d5, white has nothing special here. He has securely controlled d4, but he lacks an active plan.

I won't argue that!!!

I would guess c7/c5 squares, trading down to an endgame might be enough though?