what do you think about the kings indian attack?

What do you think about it? I'm not looking at whether the opening is good or not, but what do you personally think, do you like it, do you find it uninteresting/boring or anything else?

I like it due to its flexible playstyle as you can easily transpose to other openings.

probably one of the last sound openings I would personally play, it's quite boring and innocous...

KIA is one of the first openings that I’ve seriously studied. I initially liked the idea of creating a kingside attack and going in for the kill. However, it rarely worked out that way in my games.

1. e4 e6 2. d3 d5 3. Nd2 Nf6 4. Nf3 c5 5. g3 Nc6 6. Bg2 Be7 7. O-O O-O 8. Re1 b5 9. e5 Nd7 10. Qe1 a5 11. Nf1 b5 12. h4

After moves like Bf4 and N1h2 White’s Kingside ends up being congested with pieces where there seems no immediately promising ways to attack Black’s King. I’ve had very little success with h4-h5-h6 ideas because of ...g6 or ...h6 which typically stunts the attack for a good while, and it requires a lot of maneuvering to even think about getting the g-pawn into the attack. Black usually gains progress on the Queenside while I fumble on the Kingside and get nowhere. This happens in a lot of my games, though not all.

Sometimes it just seems too easy for Black to defend his Kingside, and too hard for White to defend his queenside. Black is attacking on the very wide and open A, B, C, and D files while White is attacking on the skinny G and H files, and very rarely does he have access to the F file. It seems that White’s attack is just too narrow, and the piece congestion just makes any plans for a successful kingside attack difficult.

That being said, there are a lot of master games where White eventually maneuvers his pieces into a strong attack, often involving a very perfectly timed piece sacrifice in order to gain ground on the Black King. But that requires a lot of precision. If Black ever plays ...h6, its not uncommon to see a Bxh6 or Ng4-Nxh6 sacrifice.

But I’m very materialistic, and I’m not very good at recognizing a good sacrifice or maneuvering pieces around. So I’ll either sacrifice too early, and end up down material, or I’ll overcommit my pieces to a failed kingside attack and get decimated on the Queenside. I also tend to focus on one side of the board (the kingside) and often neglect to properly defend my queenside. Those are entirely errors on my part, and I’ve been trying to make improvements in these areas of my game.

The KIA is definitely not a bad system (and I’ve done little exploration of the 1. Nf3 2. g3 KIA, or Sicilian KIA), but playing the French KIA accurately is a little bit difficult for me, though I still do play it often!

Me vs Roland Basque (1950 OTB rating), 1978 NB Provincial Championship, R4.

I agree that the Pawn rush h2-h4-h5-h6 promises White little because it seriously reduces the attacking frontage after the reply g7-g6.

It's OK if Black has played ...e6 with the Bishop behind the pawn chain, as in against the French or 2...e6 Sicilian.

 

Otherwise, it sucks and defeats its whole purpose!

It's fun against the french, but basically nothing against the sicilian. 

However, it's definitely playable against almost all black defenses.

#7 "it's playable" isn't a reason to play an opening. The Colle and the Scandinavian are "playable" yet I will never play them in my life because I know I can do better and I can fight for an advantage with other openings much more easily.

At the 1200 level, the best way to "fight for an advantage" is to play an opening that leads to a middle-game situation in which you feel comfortable and confident. If you feel comfortable in the Colle or the Scandinavian, play that.

I enjoy playing the KIA.

 

I just like Openings that I can play by starting with 1. Nf3, as it’s versatile.

Yeah, but enjoying the opening is a reason to play an opening. 

Because if you lay down pros and cons it goes like this:

pros:

1. it's fun to play

2. it works on many defenses

cons:

1. it doesn't fight for an advantage

the con here can be translated into a pro:

3. it doesn't lose

hence, there are basically no cons for playing a less ambitious opening if you enjoy playing it.

 

Talk about a bunch of hogwash!

Big con is the weakness of White's light squares if Black's LSB can get out on the Kingside.  This is why it only is useful against the French and 2...e6-Sicilian.

It is only useful against the french and e6 sicilian, I agree.

It is ok against the caro kann, though, as long as you switch it up to c4 instead of e4, and play it like a reti. (this way the bishop is bites on granite in the form of a d3 pawn)

It is obviously less good against the sicilian, but you can often transpose into 6.Nf3 closed sicilians. I don't know the merit of Nf3 closed sicilians, though they shouldn't be that bad for white.

Against hypermodern stuff, they don't take the center, and therefore white should have no real problems. 

worked ok for bobby & if the KID is ok...

The KIA was a favorite of Bobby Fischer's, and has been played extensively by Tal, Kasparov, and others. And it is less likely to be known by your opponent. I guess it comes down to what you personally like to play.

#5 I see what you mean but I'm not a 1200, that's what you might see on my profile but if you look closely you will see my last rated rapid game was probably months ago. I don't really play here and I'm indeed rated much higher fide and on l*chess where I play a little more actively. In general I find the KIA to be a bit dull, unplayable for my taste and not that challenging for Black so I would probably play it after I'm done exploring all e4, all d4 and all the English and Reti :)

I think it is slow and boring for both sides. I don't think it's aggressive enough while black has so many attacking ideas toward the queenside or the center.

The KIA is just fine, although the "attack" thing in its name is quite misleading.

Actually it's rather a complex opening, because a lot of different pawn structures may occur- and as such, rather unsuitable for post-beginners and lowly rated players.

 

Bobby played it against the French, not across the board.  Just goes to confirm what I said earlier.  It's fine against the French and 2...e6 Sicilians.

 

An earlier poster said the Caro but then corrected himself by saying you need to go with the Reti (c4) rather than the King's Indian Attack (e4).

 

So once again, against the French or 2...e6 Sicilian, by all means a viable option.  Against anything else, it is vastly inferior for White.

I did not say 1.Nf3 is inferior.  That can lead to the KIA, Reti, English, or a vast array of QP openings.  I said specifically the King's Indian Attack, whether via 1.e4 or 1.Nf3, vastly blows if Black dies not block in his LSB with his e-pawn.

Fischer used it against the French and 2...e6 Sicilian, so the conclusion is still the same!

 

What is more important than to say that Black plays f5 and g5 vs white playing h4 is to understand and explain WHY that is!

 

In the King's Indian Defense, White has played c4, d4, and e4.  Playing all 3 moves makes the d4-square weak since no pawn can ever cover d4.  This is why Black attacks d4 with e5, c5, or Nc6, or some combination of them.  The goal is to force White to play d5.  By getting White to play d5, this opens the door for Black to play f5 and g5 because the center is closed.  If Black plays f5 BEFORE White plays d5, then White should trade on e5 rather than advance, and use the d5-square as a launch pad to attack Black's airy king!  This is why Black must entice d5 first.  For the same reason that against 3.Nc3 in the French, Black must hold off from ...c5 until he has forced White to play e5, taking all pressure off of d5.  Same concept!  Why do you think I preach that French players should play the KID and vice versa?

 

As far as the King's Indian Attack, completely different ball of wax!  Black's pawn structure is usually c5-d5-e6, making d5 NOT weak.  The weakness here for Black is the Kingside light squares and the lack of space on the kingside, making it hard to defend squares like h7.  In the KID, White often plays f3 to hold the e4-square.  In the KIA, black almost never plays f6 because it would fatally open the e-file and expose e6.  So Black does not get the same space to maneuver that White gets in the Classical KID.  So White does not need to storm pawns to take over key squares, like a g6 pawn push to control h7 and f7, not necessary.  Also, with ...d4 not played and e5 usually played by White, not Black, playing f4 for White is dicey.  He advances h4 to control g5 and brings all of his pieces to the Kingside where Black lacks the space to maneuver his pieces to defend his King.

 

KIA and KID are stale apples and fresh oranges!