What is Black's compensation here? Furthermore, how sound is the Benko Gambit in general?

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KeSetoKaiba

I seldom face the Benko Gambit, so I was wondering what Black's compensation for the pawn is here; also is that compensation worth a pawn, or is White simply better at this point? 

I used to play this line above, where I only half-accepted this gambit; I know almost no theory in this, but I simply got the pawn back and without greed just develop and play the chess game.

Lately, I have been experimenting with just accepting the Benko Gambit Fully and have Black prove to me that their compensation is worth my extra pawn. Any thoughts regarding this opening that I know little about would be greatly appreciated happy.png 

Specifically, what are Black's main ideas? Is this well-known Gambit opening even sound at GM level?; at club level? etc. Finally, my shown half-accepted line looks about equal - but is the fully accepted line a stronger option for White, or are there other preferences to be considered (such as one line being really tactical or closed or something of that nature)?

IMKeto

Black obtains fast development, good control of the a1–h8 diagonal, pressure down the half-open a- and b-files. These are benefits which can last well into the endgame and so, unusually for a gambit, Black does not generally mind if queens are exchanged; indeed, exchanging queens can often remove the sting from a kingside attack by White.

I have been playing the Benko for years, and have has good results with it.  Beating, and drawing Expert, A, and B players.

IMKeto

 

KeSetoKaiba

Thank you IMBacon; these are the types of insights I was hoping to have explained. As I mentioned, I know relatively little about the Benko Gambit compared to other openings that I play against more often. It was nice to hear from someone who actually uses this opening - it gives a perspective I do not have. happy.png

KeSetoKaiba

Thank you for your thoughts DeirdreSkye. I especially find this old variation interesting; your are right in the fact that the White King finds a nice square on g2 if Black exchanges Bishops. I may experiment with this old line somewhat - especially since I have been relatively comfortable playing other lines where I manually move the King to a safer place (here g2) such as in many King's Indian Defense variations from both sides. 

Once again, thank you. I feel that I have a bit more options and understanding to experiment with and see what line(s) I choose to regularly place against the Benko Gambit.

IMKeto

I think what may help you is to set up just the pawns, and get familiar with the structure.  What does each side have in this pawn structure?

White: Passed a-pawn (Rook pawns are notoriously drawish).  More center space.

Black: Semi open a-b files.  h8-a1 diagonal.

So what does this tell you?

Black will play on the queenside with his rooks on the active a-b files, while white will play in the center, where he has a space advantage.

solflores

I always play Benko. It is great.

osdeving

I'm curious about openings 'for club players' and opening 'for gm'. Why club players what play a opening without know WHY GM dont play? If the opening is too good, a 2700+ player AGAINST a 2700+ player use, no? yes? maybe?


SmyslovFan

I've played the 12.a4 line that @JamesColeman mentions. It is a dangerous, dangerous weapon, but Black always seems prepared for it. White has a number of options that give White at least a small plus, but nothing major. It doesn't seem to be very popular in correspondence chess, and few top GMs apart from Topalov have tried it more than a few times. 

I suspect that most top GMs view it with suspicion, but it's dangerous to play against. 

SmyslovFan

Btw, several coaching friends of mine recommend the Benko to scholastic players because it shows that you don't have to always count pawns, the lines are easy to memorize, and Black gets thematic counterplay almost every time. 

KeSetoKaiba

Thank you everyone. These thoughts help me understand the opening a bit better (even if just a little bit). 

IMBacon, I already briefly looked at the pawn structure, but I thank you for posting it; I am sure many other people will read this forum and find these structural ideas invigorating. In fact, I still find pawn structure fascinating - but finding it fascinating and actually "listening" to what it tells you every time may sometimes be two separate things. 

osdeving

10 games stockfish x stockfish with benko gambit i'm curious about the results...

IMKeto
KeSetoKaiba wrote:

Thank you everyone. These thoughts help me understand the opening a bit better (even if just a little bit). 

IMBacon, I already briefly looked at the pawn structure, but I thank you for posting it; I am sure many other people will read this forum and find these structural ideas invigorating. In fact, I still find pawn structure fascinating - but finding it fascinating and actually "listening" to what it tells you every time may sometimes be two separate things. 

Glad to be of help.  Im a late bloomer when it comes to pawn structures.  Never took it seriously...I mean after all...they are pawns.  But i have recently started really getting into studying pawn structures.  Its an incredibly fun, informative, and instructional way of learning.  

Sincerely,

"The Pawn Whisperer"

KeSetoKaiba

IMBacon, I find pawn structures interesting too, but I naturally noticed their significance when I learned chess; of course, I barely understood any structures well back then, but for some reason I just felt that pawn structures dictated the chess game itself. Looking back, that probably helped me a lot - but it was more of a fact I just kind of expected rather than figured out (No one told me this, but I just assumed it followed logically - who knows why, I just thought this, but I did - too bad I barely understood just HOW significant pawn structures could be). 

p.s. "The Pawn Whisperer" is a nice touch happy.png

IMKeto
KeSetoKaiba wrote:

IMBacon, I find pawn structures interesting too, but I naturally noticed their significance when I learned chess; of course, I barely understood any structures well back then, but for some reason I just felt that pawn structures dictated the chess game itself. Looking back, that probably helped me a lot - but it was more of a fact I just kind of expected rather than figured out (No one told me this, but I just assumed it followed logically - who knows why, I just thought this, but I did - too bad I barely understood just HOW significant pawn structures could be). 

p.s. "The Pawn Whisperer" is a nice touch

That is where we differ.  I never really took the time, or put in the effort to learn about pawns, and pawn structures.  Better late than never as they say.  Its also given me a renewed interest in the game.  I guess its like anything when its new.  It gets you all excited.

IMKeto
BobbyPhisher960 wrote:

Looks like both Sicilian and Benko are busted.

Well there goes GM level play!

drmrboss
osdeving wrote:

10 games stockfish x stockfish with benko gambit i'm curious about the 

 

Ten games is too small sample size, play 100 games minimum .

How much white will score depend on time control. With longer time control or stronger hardware, black player or inferior side usually find a way to draw in bad position and white's  winning chance is low.

So for common 5+3  min blitz on 4 cores PC in 100 games,

I think approx 54-56% score for white for benko. 

Meanwhile, Queen Indian Defence ( stockfish' best choice opening for black) would end, 51-52%.

 

osdeving
IMBacon escreveu:

...I guess its like anything when its new.  It gets you all excited.



For me the 'endgame' that renewed my interest in the study. 'pawn structure', 'bishop good', 'bishop bad', 'open lines', 'outpost', and openings was not new for me. But endgame, yes. I discovered that there is a science behind the endgame. I found the concept of 'key houses' interesting. It leaves the feeling of 'more of the same' and I'm getting to know new things.

->
Let's be honest, an adult player who has studied something of chess knows that he is not advancing because he does not apply what he knows in games. And in some cases he knows that he is not applying what he knows in games because of tiredness and how slow he is to calculate and do the proper analysis. An adult not accustomed to playing with this level of attention has as its greatest defect the mental process or mental posture and not lack of knowledge. Adults like learn new things before apply the old ones...

IMKeto
osdeving wrote:
IMBacon escreveu:

...I guess its like anything when its new.  It gets you all excited.



For me the 'endgame' that renewed my interest in the study. 'pawn structure', 'bishop good', 'bishop bad', 'open lines', 'outpost', and openings was not new for me. But endgame, yes. I discovered that there is a science behind the endgame. I found the concept of 'key houses' interesting. It leaves the feeling of 'more of the same' and I'm getting to know new things.

->
Let's be honest, an adult player who has studied something of chess knows that he is not advancing because he does not apply what he knows in games. And in some cases he knows that he is not applying what he knows in games because of tiredness and how slow he is to calculate and do the proper analysis. An adult not accustomed to playing with this level of attention has as its greatest defect the mental process or mental posture and not lack of knowledge. Adults like learn new things before apply the old ones...

I have no idea what you said, but it sounded good.

Alltheusernamestaken