What is the easiest plan to start opening with d4?

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Spiffe
Elubas wrote:

Learning how to play d4 can make all the difference!! I used to play e4 all the time when I was like 1000 but d4 can give you a very pleasant position. In fact, even at my level I usually get a two pawn or at least superior center! I recomend you add it to your repertoire and see how you like it. After 1 d4 d5, play 2 c4, and learn how to regain the pawn. The point is to play cxd5 and to follow up with a quick e4. If they play ...e6 or ...c6, play these moves: Nc3, Nf3, e3, Bd3, 0-0, and e4, which will probably give you a great position at your level. That's all you really need to know. It also avoids openings like the sicilian. Please try it.


I don't disagree that it's useful to be familiar with both e4 & d4.  But is it really important or necessary for an 1100 player?  I say no.

DrawMaster

Let me restate the original question in a different manner: I'm rated 1100, play 1.e4, don't like my results, and am considering switching to 1.d4: Is that the most likely option for improvement in my chess strength and results?

Stated that way, the answer is clearly and resoundingly NO.

The single activity most likely to improve the strength and results of an 1100-rated player is the examination and solving of realistic, game-situation-oriented tactic problems (in addition to playing serious games of chess, of course).

If at 1100, one wants to switch openings, who cares? Go ahead. I'll guarantee that you'll continue to drop pieces and miss threats and opportunities in games with the new opening as well; that is, until one's tactical prowess improves.

I've played just about every opening under the sun at one time or another. Give me 30-to-50 or so games in a new opening and I'm playing at my same strength: 1500. Why? Because my other skills (i.e., tactical vision and computation, endgame strength, planning, etc.) are still 1500 strength.

Openings (not general ideas about the opening, but specific openings and opening lines) are just about the least important part of chess for anyone 1400 and below. Any good teacher will tell you the same. But what do we obsess about most? Openings. If I could take 99% of the time I've spent on openings and have put it into tactics (and maybe a little more endgame skill), I'd be 1800+ rated, minimum. I have no doubt about it.

But still, if you feel like changing, change. You've got to have fun to remain motivated and if you're not having fun, do something different. I'd recommend (at least) 25 tactics problems a day, if I were your coach.Wink

Best of luck,

DrawMaster

stwils

You perhaps misunderstand my posts. I am not bored, and I am having fun and I am challenged.

The reason I thought of going over to d4 is that a friend of mine suggested it to me thinking perhaps it would broaden my chess experience.

Frankly, I could live with e4 forever Smile but I want to learn something new, even if I am not quite ready for it.

Thanks so much to all of you have given me suggestions and your thoughts. I really appreciate your reponses.

I love the Ruy, and that's what I start with. Depending on black's response, I may end up with something else.

But d4 would give me a new board vision, maybe to my demise. But I am going to stick my toe in the water... just a little bit.

stwils

mschosting

Very easy stonewall systems d4 e3 f4 I actually like the colle system d4 e3 Nf3 b3 or c3 the idea b3 is flanchetoo the black bishop and then bust open the center, this is the Zukertort, the other much more solid is simple c3 were white can get really too solid but not that easy to develop, the aggressive ideas are several it tends to be a pawn storm with f4 g4 etc. hope it helps I'm also 1e4 trying on d4 and actually I have more success with it then I do with e4, but I play much less d4 because I like the wild tactical mess we get with e4 and I want to learn the ruy lopez better Laughing Hope it helps

Elubas
Spiffe wrote:
Elubas wrote:

Learning how to play d4 can make all the difference!! I used to play e4 all the time when I was like 1000 but d4 can give you a very pleasant position. In fact, even at my level I usually get a two pawn or at least superior center! I recomend you add it to your repertoire and see how you like it. After 1 d4 d5, play 2 c4, and learn how to regain the pawn. The point is to play cxd5 and to follow up with a quick e4. If they play ...e6 or ...c6, play these moves: Nc3, Nf3, e3, Bd3, 0-0, and e4, which will probably give you a great position at your level. That's all you really need to know. It also avoids openings like the sicilian. Please try it.


I don't disagree that it's useful to be familiar with both e4 & d4.  But is it really important or necessary for an 1100 player?  I say no.


Learning these basic ideas isn't too hard in my opinion for an 1100 player. Against players of his level it's not so easy to play against. For example, many weak players try 2 ...Nf6 in defence to 2 c4 and white can just play cxd5 followed by e4 with a clearly superior position. They may also play ...dxc4 trying to hold the pawn or won't be able to react correctly to 3 e4, which could give white many attacking chances on either side. It doesn't have to be his main move, but black will be more punished for mistakes than white in these d4 openings, because white is always threatening to play e4. I think it is certainly worth trying. How hard is that to understand? Just play for e4 early on, and in e4 openings you do the other central move.

mschosting

The 1100 is not a real factor here, more important is the player age/experience

mschosting

I always go d5 there so no big problem there Cool But lots of times I do play d4,d5 c4,e5 I love this gambit it always gets wild, if I need the result Ill go d5 c6 slav quite solid

Elubas

Aggressive, less experienced players find it hard to soundly lash out against d4, and black's tries for doing that against e4 are much better tries than against the solid d4. He is forced to simply outplay his opponent.

killthequeen
stwils wrote:
killthequeen wrote:

As you get to higher, better chess, you may find that a lot of people play the Sicilian. If you are very uncomfortable with the Sicilian, then an alternate second move might be useful to know


 What is the alternate second move against the Sicilian?  Lots of people use that when I open with e4.

stwils


Sorry my bad. I mean alternate 1st move.

Golbat

Go with the Fischer Repertoire: Sicilian, and King's Indian against anything else (including d4).

mschosting
AnthonyCG wrote:
Most people will tell you to stick with 1.e4 because most tactics come from that and thats what lower ratered players should be working on. I think switching is okay as long as you don't forget to study tactics.

Actually I noticed stronger club players tacticians tend to go d4 because people know far less opening lines and a 2000 player that goes e4 even against 1700 player will get at least 15 moves in the opening by the book lol

VLaurenT

If you're rated 1100 and want to play 1.d4, then just play 1.d4 !

You don't need any specific knowledge at this stage - learn along the way Smile

Elubas

No they should know that basic plan I mentioned in the queen's gambit. That will be a good starting point.

Fishman1964
stwils wrote:

I am an e4 opener. I don't think I ever played d4. But a friend of mine on this site whom I have played, suggested to me that it might be helpful if I learned something besides e4.  And he is right.

So that is why I am going to try play d4.

What would be the best path to follow after d4? (I am not into learning a lot of openings right  now as I need to spend my time on tactics. But I do think he is right that I should at least play something besides e4.)

Any suggestions would be wonderful.

stwils


 E4 / d5 by black / E3 / f6 / C4 / c6 /A3 /e6 /NC3/h6 / NF3 / qa5 / BD2 /qb6/ B4 /0-0 / BD3/qd7 then you 0-0.....There are many variations to this opening depending on how aggressive black tends to be....this is also passive play for white and other like white solely as the aggressor. A3 is a key developement move as it keeps you from the bishop pin and keeps you knight for possitioning and attack purposes. Hope this helps !

lastwarrior2010

almost always, white's second move it c4

Whipster

At the amateur level, as most of us are, it's better to use and know one opening, and know it well, instead of knowing lots - more depth, less breadth is what I go by.

Anyway, if you know you still need to work on tactics, then stick to e4 - the open games should help you immensely.

If you really want to get started with d4, a good opening to start with at club level is probably the Stonewall attack (look it up), which is slow but solid, and involves a definite plan and course of action, and a load of tactics when finishing your opponent off (hopefully).

KillaBeez

Unlike the majority of posters here, I agree with your friend.  I do not think that playing the Botvinnik Semi-Slav would be a good idea, but playing a system like the Colle or the London system would be a good idea.  Playing those positions also lead to attacks or positional games.  They greatly enhance your understanding.  Don't get me wrong.  Tactics are a great choice to study.  But playing d4 would help you get exposed to different positions and let you improve your chess understanding.

RC_Woods
scottk74 wrote:

i think playing d4 some times can be use full i know a guy at my local chess club that is a master at pley d5 to whites e4 if you play e4 he punish you bad but i have found if i play d4 it takes him down a notch and i only play d4 agianst him now i would say this most times white plays c4 after d4 to take control of center just like e4 you play d4 a lot but the nice thing about play d4 and then c4 is the Knight can come to c3 and with out blocking this pawn i will not say much more then that becuase you dont want to learn all the main lines so just go from there oh and keep this in mind if you play good chess and follow basic chess rules openings matter very little infact most times you can give a pawn away in the opening and still be ok


My advice to a beginning player would be to not play 1.d4, since it is more positional and perhaps more difficult to fully understand.

It is my opinion that the Italian game (3. Bc4 instead of the Ruy 3. Bc5) is easiest to understand for beginners, and tactical enough as well (especially if black moves 3. ..Nf6).

Against the club player that tosses 1. ..d5?! against your 1. e4 - study the opening theory in the scandinavian. You should be fine. I don't have much good words for that defense as black. You could perhaps download a free engine to do some home analysis. I'd recommend der bringer. It is fast and more than strong enough to help a 1000 rated player out.

Good luck!

antonisf

well, some very interesting posts in this subject. People say play this, or do that, or torre is best, or gambits all the way, but you know what? everything is subjective. You should play what you feel most comfortable with.

However you have to remember that if you really want to advance your chess and not just play for fun, then you will have to learn to serve from the left (d4) too. Just as serious d4 players learn the Lopez positions (they really have to, you know, they are THAT important) so e4 players learn some extremely important positions that occur from 1.d4 (eg Carlsband structures)

Diversing and trying new things is a good practice, and with the right attitute you will improve no end. :)