What is this opening called!?

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CarlMI

One reason I experiment with so many openings is different situations require different handling.  Some openings I'll use with anyone, like the Nimzo Indian.  But OTB I prefer the Bogo while in CC I'll use the Queens Indian (vs. 3.Nf3).   As Black in a Swiss I'll go for a sicilian whereas in Round Robins I tend to go for the Ruy.  As white against lower players I tend to 1. e4 but against experts and masters I tend to prefer the Catalan. 

Of course there are times, especially when playing for fun, I'll start tossing out gambits (BDG, Morra) or more agressive lines like the Benoni.  And sometimes I'll switch it up if I'm bored. 


grolich
judgeofthenight wrote:

simple

 

this is a closed game (d4 d5) or a french defence classical variation(e4 e6 d4 d5)

 White should play this against french defence:

(Followed by suggesting the advance variation).


If I were playing the french, nothing would please me more than seeing the advance variation: I get a sharp game in which black's queenside and central pressure compensate for the cramp on the kingside.

 

The statement that white SHOULD play the advance variation against the french is quite absurd:

It's not considered as the main threat to it by any strong player, and is not the reason why some GMs have claimed they don't believe in the french.

 

Black has an excellent position in the advance variation, and white probably doesn't have even a slight advantage there.

 

The reason why the french require certain nerves of steel to play lies in the Nc3 variation. Even if the pawn advances quickly to e5 anyway, the variations tend to be totally different and more aggressive than in any other variation.

 

If I could get a guarantee that I'd be facing the advance variation every time, I'd be a regular french player.

 


grolich

Btw, it would be helpful if you gave the moves that were played.

Also, how come it's white to move??? unless some weird pawn moves happened, it seems a bit strange.


BaronDerKilt

Looks like a Guimard French or a Nimzovich Defense ... depending where it goes or where it came from :) Funny it is at the point it might have come from either and might continue to either. As to WT's formation, it is simply "Classical Development".

***

Exchange French most often favors Black. I've 0-0-0 with black and won with a double rook sack on the h-file to mate with Q. Just follow the Watson stuff. If WT wants to live easy, he needs to initiate Q-side activities so quickly black cannot   0-0-0 , but then he is hardly playing for a draw. If he wants to do that he should avoid c3 altogether and copy blacks development with Nc3, in my experience. The thing is, black Never has anything to FEAR from the Exchange variation. So it is like an invitation from WT to go ahead and grind away for a 100 moves, testing his play. Karpov would love it, I think.


ericmittens
Karpov plays the Tarrasch, if you want to grind out a positional win the mainline Tarrasch is what I would recommend as white.
CarlMI
If, as black, you face 3.  Nd2 and aren't happy with the positions after 3....c5 (IQP), 3....Nc6 (somewhat suspect) or 3.... Nf6 (theoretically inferior to 3...c5) there is always 3....de, the Burns var.  Not as many chances for a win but still a respectable alternative to the Tarrasch.
TheOldReb
CarlMI wrote: If, as black, you face 3.  Nd2 and aren't happy with the positions after 3....c5 (IQP), 3....Nc6 (somewhat suspect) or 3.... Nf6 (theoretically inferior to 3...c5) there is always 3....de, the Burns var.  Not as many chances for a win but still a respectable alternative to the Tarrasch.

I would like to know what "data" you base this on? Is it just your opinion or from your own games/experience? I checked my database and after 3 Nd2 both 3....c5 and Nf6 score 43% for black , as for the 3....Nc6 that you say is somewhat suspect (42%) what you recommend instead 3....dxe4 only claims 38% so your recommendation is more "suspect" than 3....Nc6 which you claim is suspect....


CarlMI
Reb wrote: CarlMI wrote: If, as black, you face 3.  Nd2 and aren't happy with the positions after 3....c5 (IQP), 3....Nc6 (somewhat suspect) or 3.... Nf6 (theoretically inferior to 3...c5) there is always 3....de, the Burns var.  Not as many chances for a win but still a respectable alternative to the Tarrasch.

I would like to know what "data" you base this on? Is it just your opinion or from your own games/experience? I checked my database and after 3 Nd2 both 3....c5 and Nf6 score 43% for black , as for the 3....Nc6 that you say is somewhat suspect (42%) what you recommend instead 3....dxe4 only claims 38% so your recommendation is more "suspect" than 3....Nc6 which you claim is suspect....


Yes!? I'm at work so the only dB I have is the Shredder one online.  It shows 3. Nd2 scores 57.3%   3.... c5 scores 44.7%,  Nf6 is 41.2%, Nc6 is 39.7%, and dxe4 is 37.5%.  As a fervent believer in lies, d-mned lies and statistics there is a lot said and unsaid here.  At the master level, which I am not Cry, I see c5 & Nf6 as the only viable options.  Down here in the club level Nc6 is too subtle, c5 is the IQP which is a little more difficult.  I find club players handle Nf6 or dxe4 better.  If you look into those statistics a little closer I think you will find those players who played dxe4 are rated significantly lower. 


TheOldReb
As a french player for years I played both 3....c5 and  3...Nf6 against the tarrasch and score better with Nf6, I have a higher % of wins and losses in the Nf6 lines with few draws while in the 3...c5 lines I win and lose less but the draws are twice as many......so I think its a toss up between the two for me and probably for many others as well...
ericmittens
I much prefer Nf6, but I know in the karpov-korchnoi championship matches korchnoi used c5 exclusively....maybe that says something, maybe not.
TheOldReb
ericmittens wrote: I much prefer Nf6, but I know in the karpov-korchnoi championship matches korchnoi used c5 exclusively....maybe that says something, maybe not.

It says Korchnoi had confidence that he could hold a draw in the resulting IQP positions. To do so against Karpov is amazing .


CarlMI
Another thing to check on the statistics is the time span.  Something I might do at home if I get time. Opening variations do have varying success rates over time.  A line once successful has a hole discovered in it.  A line once bad has a new resource found.  My dB is a bit old but it might be interesting to rerun the statistical analysis limited to 2000 to present and possibly a second one comparing rating differences and results.
ericmittens
Reb wrote: ericmittens wrote: I much prefer Nf6, but I know in the karpov-korchnoi championship matches korchnoi used c5 exclusively....maybe that says something, maybe not.

It says Korchnoi had confidence that he could hold a draw in the resulting IQP positions. To do so against Karpov is amazing .


 Very true! But I'm sure opening theory has advanced since then, who knows if korchnoi could do the same today.


Niven42
It's not as weird as it seems.  Chessbase has 4 games with this position.  The ECO is C10, and as stated before, it's classification is a "French with 3. Nc3: unusual black 3rd moves, and 3. ... dxe4".