What opening is this? Guy plays d3 and c4 and puts his king on d2.

Sort:
AdorableMogwai

I just lost several blitz games in a row with this guy who was playing at white. Each game (unless I did something to interrupt it)  he would play 1.d3 2.c4 3.Nc3 4.e3 5.Nf3 6.b3 7.Kd2.

I asked him what this opening was and where he got the idea to play it, but he was rude and vague, and didn't give me any information, despite me being polite to him.

Also in a few of the games went
1.d3 d5 2.c4 dxc4  3.Nc3 cxd3  4.Nf3 and he just let me capture the pawns like a gambit.

He was very rude, but I got the idea that he was a good player. I think maybe he was playing that way just because he could, or trying to get me to over-react.

Is this any kind of opening you know of?

TitanCG

It looks like free stuff. 

AdorableMogwai

What do you mean?

Obviously he got the idea from somewhere, he was only playing as white so it was like he was trying to practice it. Isn't there another opening where the king stays in the center, "the Old Indian Defense" or something.

Conquistador

It is one of the myriad of variations in the Bongcloud.

DefinitelyNotGM

The Delayed Diagonal Bongcloud. Worse than the real thing.

AdorableMogwai

That's what I said to him in the game, I said "I think this is called the Bongcloud?" and he didn't really answer, just vagueness. Is there an official bongcloud? What characterizes it?

Pushing the kingside pawns was an integral part of his strategy as well, I guess that's why he put his king on d2, some kind of strange manual queenside castle to make his opponents underestimate him perhaps, and then utilize the pawn storm.

TitanCG

After 4...dxe2 what will White do? The queens are staring at each other and a bishop is hanging. Meanwhile he's 2 pawns down with no cheapos or ways to get a tempo.

I guess he played 5.Qxd8 in your game but I don't see White's plan after 5...Kxd8 6.Be2 f6. Maybe 6...f6 is a bit much but I don't think you could go wrong.

Yaroslavl

1.d3 2.c4 3.Nc3 4.e3 5.Nf3 6.b3 7.Kd2. Except for the move 7.Kd2 the opening he is playing is the Sicilian Dragon Reversed.

1.d3 d5 2.c4 dxc4  3.Nc3 cxd3  4.Nf3 and he just let me capture the pawns like a gambit. This an Irregular

Opening. You are right he is gambiting pawns for an advantage in development. For instance after

4.Nf3 if Black plays 4...dxe2, White will play 5.QxQ(d8)+ KxQ(d8). Now Black's King has lost its castling

And is in the middle of the board where White's advantage in development will enable him to generate many

attacks against Black's exposed and vulnerable King.

AdorableMogwai
TitanCG wrote:

After 4...dxe2 what will White do? The queens are staring at each other and a bishop is hanging. Meanwhile he's 2 pawns down with no cheapos or ways to get a tempo.

I guess he played 5.Qxd8 in your game but I don't see White's plan after 5...Kxd8 6.Be2 f6. Maybe 6...f6 is a bit much but I don't think you could go wrong.

I didn't play 4...dxe2 because as you said, he could capture my queen on d8, force my king to the center with check, and then capture the pawn on e2 with his bishop. Despite the fact the queens are off the board. I don't like this situation because he now has 3 pieces developed and open lines, meanwhile I have zero pieces developed and my king is stranded in the center, all for 2 pawns? If I had had time to think maybe I would have done it but these were 5 minute per side blitz games.

AdorableMogwai
Yaroslavl wrote:

1.d3 2.c4 3.Nc3 4.e3 5.Nf3 6.b3 7.Kd2. Except for the move 7.Kd2 the opening he is playing is the Sicilian Dragon Reversed.

 

1.d3 d5 2.c4 dxc4  3.Nc3 cxd3  4.Nf3 and he just let me capture the pawns like a gambit. This an Irregular

Opening. You are right he is gambiting pawns for an advantage in development. For instance after

4.Nf3 if Black plays 4...dxe2, White will play 5.QxQ(d8)+ KxQ(d8). Now Black's King has lost its castling

And is in the middle of the board where White's advantage in development will enable him to generate many

attacks against Black's exposed and vulnerable King.

Thanks for your insight and analysis. It did seem like a reverse Sicilian, but if it was a true Sicilian Dragon reversed, shouldn't he have fianchettoed his light square bishop on g2?

Yaroslavl

You are right. I read 6.b3 as 6.g3. It is actually some modified form of the Queen's Indian Reversed.

AdorableMogwai

I just ran computer analysis on the games and I have reason to believe he was cheating. His move times were very regular, something like 80% of his moves were between 4 and 9 seconds. Also computer analysis showed he was making a few mistakes and innaccuracies at the beginning but after around move 10 in all the games he played perfectly until the end. I think he was going into this goofy opening and the pasting the position into an engine.

Talfan1

be cold and assess this calmly you already allowed your opponent to niggle you and probably wasted valuable time typing to him /her not advisable in any blitz format the next time you face this look to anhialate the pawns ad funnily enough ignore his king the focus on him will come later as you demolish his support also king d2 cedes you a tempo so vital for black in any opening phase

AdorableMogwai

Here's the analysis of one of the games http://en.lichess.org/analyse/6csy0hjp/black

Notice how his only blunder is moving the king to d2 as part of the opening, and after move 9 he plays 100% perfectly without a single inaccuracy and this is playing perfectly in a blitz game. You can see I have an advantage at the beginning but through his perfect play it erodes into nothing and then I get checkmated. Yes I look bad in that game which is why I didn't want to link to this, but when people use engines it makes you look bad. Either he's an extremely good chess player or he's using an engine especially considering the move time pie charts.

http://en.lichess.org/6csy0hjp/stats

Also notice the ONLY move where he took over ten seconds was at the beginning right before he started playing perfectly, you see it on the graph there's a spike in time for him at around move 8 and I think that's when he was loading the position into an engine.

I didn't type to him in this game btw.

Talfan1

submit this game t cheaters forum for analysis they will best advise you if opponent was using prog

AdorableMogwai

I don't care enough to submit it, I was just showing you why I thought that.

I look terrible in that game, the funny thing is I could see the checkmate coming from a mile away but I just couldn't be bothered to try and defend it because whatever I did he always seemed to have a counter to. In all the games it felt like playing an engine you know, how you just can't do anything no matter what you try.

MervynS

While white may be losing after 7. Kd2, it's the type of position where the black win is a long winded, tedious affair requiring a high level of skill to exploit. It also means that white's position is much easier to play than black...which can be quite crucial in blitz games.

I was curious how this game would go after white's 12. Qxf3 by doing computer vs computer (with Stockfish), and it is only by move 30 that black manages to win another pawn with a few aimless shuffling moves thrown in. So even computer programs, while understanding that there is an advantage for black, are having a bit of "trouble" with the black side.

So my guess is that your opponent discovered the move 7. Kd2 which is meant to waste a lot of time on the black side rather than to create play for white.

aggressivesociopath

This is just one of the things you have to put up with. Better players treating you like a bitch until you learn how to play chess. Don't look at this as a real opening, it is an insult on your honor compounded by you somehow managing to lose.

You already checked with a computer and I have nothing to add but my astonishment that you managed to trade off all of your more active pieces and walk into mate.

AdorableMogwai
aggressivesociopath wrote:

This is just one of the things you have to put up with. Better players treating you like a bitch until you learn how to play chess. Don't look at this as a real opening, it is an insult on your honor compounded by you somehow managing to lose.

You already checked with a computer and I have nothing to add but my astonishment that you managed to trade off all of your more active pieces and walk into mate.

He played perfectly in ALL the games after the opening. Absolutely perfect after around move 10. Look at this one where I played better http://en.lichess.org/analyse/gutwb8ix/black

Also they were blitz game so I didn't really have time to sit back and think of a strategy, but I agree with you that opening sucks.

TitanCG
aggressivesociopath wrote:

This is just one of the things you have to put up with. Better players treating you like a bitch until you learn how to play chess. Don't look at this as a real opening, it is an insult on your honor compounded by you somehow managing to lose.

You already checked with a computer and I have nothing to add but my astonishment that you managed to trade off all of your more active pieces and walk into mate.

I seriously doubt that. I might agree if this was a game of two masters playing out some lost king and pawn ending but this is just club chess. Frankly you play a move like Kd2 to wind up your opponent and make him think more than he should. He might even get angry or arrogant and come at you stupid. Then all your weaknesses will soon be negated by some weird looking tactic that wins material. Honor, which I doubt is attainable in a board game, seems far from the point. 

I remember many blitz games where after the moves 1.d4 e5 2.e3 I received many unpleasant remarks about my opening move. This was then followed by them losing massive amounts of material and disconnecting. These games required little to no effort from me since my opponents would often overlook tactics trying to "punish" me on move 3 and with the black pieces no less. I also found that by increasing my speed at certain points of the game I could even provoke bad moves from my opponent. It was like clockwork...

Anyway I really don't think it's worth it to get riled up over things like that.