2.Nf3 preparing to enter a favorable Reti but threatening a QGD as well, is another option after 1.c4 e6. Of course, you'll probably end up playing either g3 or d4 next, but you never know...maybe your opponent didn't want to play 2.d5 afterall, and you can go about your business.
What to do against the annoying Triangle/Noteboom move order?
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dodgecharger1968 wrote:
2.Nf3 preparing to enter a favorable Reti but threatening a QGD as well, is another option after 1.c4 e6. Of course, you'll probably end up playing either g3 or d4 next, but you never know...maybe your opponent didn't want to play 2.d5 afterall, and you can go about your business.
Im outside my repertoire though after 2.Nf3. 2..Nf6 and I can no longer play 3.e4. Its a case of everything sacrificing something. The 2.g3 catalanish lines can be very positionally complex, which isnt what I want for something I will probs only play 1/30 games as white. Meanwhite the QGD are less complex, but will be much more fmailiar to my opponent because I rarely play them.
Sep 30, 2014
0
#84
Well, since you're the complete opposite of me (I love Catalan and Reti and the positional complexity), you might like diving into the unorthodox French 1.c4 e6 2.e4. Probably keeps most of your themes going, and not many defenders will know it well.
Sep 30, 2014
0
#85
Tony Kosten suggested with Qc2 and delaying d4, in "Dynamic English". It was very much one of those "it's a game" lines, but sound and offbeat. It's strange have little experience playing against Queens Gambit declined structures because they are fundamental ones which all club players playing black should have some familarity with.
Don't have much actual playing experience of the particular Carlsbad structure with Ne2, and sometimes aiming for f3,e4. It seems kind of important were both sides kings end up. From theoretical point of view there is book by John Cox for black on QGD, which has recommend lines for black. It is based around a Kasparov v Andersen game, finding improvements for black. Black chances of getting equal play seem as good as any other opening. Must admit have some respect for this line as at least white trying to do something. The attacking my little toe type of chess, that the minority attack leads to, is not something I lose a lot of sleep about club players attempting.
win
pfren wrote:
Where did you get these games from? Trollbase probably?
By the way, when does the new TrollBook come out?
Sep 30, 2014
0
#88
SmyslovFan wrote:
That's kind of what Ozzie was getting at. It's a chess game. The winner of such a position will be the one who understands the plans better. Isn't that what we want out of an opening?
Exactly.
Maybe it's the pfren inside all of us, but I more or less ignore posts that imply great knowledge of all recent development but actually give no data, such as "serious improvements have been found for Black in this line that leave us at =/+" and "Check some high level Iccf games and other recent 'cc' battles.".
I guess the point is that the opponent is not going to spend their time prepping in the 4.e4 dxe4 5.Nxe4 Bb4+ 6.Nc3 lines, when the position is more or less equal. You've got to spend time learning the really critical ones, which are the Noteboom itself and the 6.Bd2 pawn gambit.
I found another nice answer to the initial question: Play 3.Nf3 + 4.Bg5:
I posted this in the new group's "Dorfman's Method in Chess" forum, too.
another solution is to start playing the game against the opponent, and then when the game proceeds to 1 or 2 moves before checkmate, all you have to do is knock over the table and pieces will fall on the floor.
then you can tell your opponent that you did not lose.
if you follow this genius advice, then you will never ever lose a game against the annoying Triangle/Noteboom move order?
There you go. I just solved the original poster's question.
case closed.
Oct 2, 2014
0
#91
@rowsweep To make your code compile, you need to also specify that the OP should only do this against the annoying Noteboom, and not against anything else.
TwoMove wrote:
Tony Kosten suggested with Qc2 and delaying d4, in "Dynamic English". It was very much one of those "it's a game" lines, but sound and offbeat. It's strange have little experience playing against Queens Gambit declined structures because they are fundamental ones which all club players playing black should have some familarity with.
Don't have much actual playing experience of the particular Carlsbad structure with Ne2, and sometimes aiming for f3,e4. It seems kind of important were both sides kings end up. From theoretical point of view there is book by John Cox for black on QGD, which has recommend lines for black. It is based around a Kasparov v Andersen game, finding improvements for black. Black chances of getting equal play seem as good as any other opening. Must admit have some respect for this line as at least white trying to do something. The attacking my little toe type of chess, that the minority attack leads to, is not something I lose a lot of sleep about club players attempting.
Ill have a look into Kosten's book, it's been quite a long time since I examined his lines.
As for experience, I do have experience in the lines, as before transitioning to c4 I played d4. However, knowledge of the lines naturally fades over time if I don't get to practice them, which is the case when I only reach them against 1.c4 e6. Ideally, I would like one of the ''its a game options'' that is unique to the english (so I dont get simply outclassed by experience in the line). So delaying d4 seems ideal (2.Nc3 doesn't really let me do this, as a d5-d4 could be a big problem.
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:
@rowsweep To make your code compile, you need to also specify that the OP should only do this against the annoying Noteboom, and not against anything else.
1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 c6 4 Nf3 dxc4 5 a4 Bb4 6 e3 b5 7 Bd2 a5 8 rowsweep the pieces from the board
ghostofmaroczy wrote:
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:
@rowsweep To make your code compile, you need to also specify that the OP should only do this against the annoying Noteboom, and not against anything else.
1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 c6 4 Nf3 dxc4 5 a4 Bb4 6 e3 b5 7 Bd2 a5 8 rowsweep the pieces from the board
OP: here is my advice
White: dpnorman
Black: dpnorman's opponent
1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 c6 4 Nf3 dxc4 5 a4 Bb4 6 e3 b5 7 Bd2 a5 8. play and lose the game
and then later on around move x where on move x you are 1 or 2 moves from checkmate
dpnorman should rowsweep the pieces from the board
and then tell his opponent that nobody won or lost the game.
rowsweep wrote:
ghostofmaroczy wrote:
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:
@rowsweep To make your code compile, you need to also specify that the OP should only do this against the annoying Noteboom, and not against anything else.
1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 c6 4 Nf3 dxc4 5 a4 Bb4 6 e3 b5 7 Bd2 a5 8 rowsweep the pieces from the board
OP: here is my advice
White: dpnorman
Black: dpnorman's opponent
1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 c6 4 Nf3 dxc4 5 a4 Bb4 6 e3 b5 7 Bd2 a5 8. play and lose the game
and then later on around move x where on move x you are 1 or 2 moves from checkmate
dpnorman should rowsweep the pieces from the board
and then tell his opponent that nobody won or lost the game.
1-0 black resigns
0-1 white resigns
0-0 rowsweep enacted
1-1 rowsweep's boyfriend's birthday
The QGD and in particular the triangle also happens to be annoying for me because I play 1.c4.
Usually 1.c4 Nf6 I play 2.Nc3 and if ..e6 play 3.e4 which I very like.
However, after 1.c4 e6 there is a problem: If I play 2.Nc3 after 2..d5 I pretty much have to accept playing QGD. Because 2..g3 or w/e followed by 2..nf6 will take me out of my repertoire and is a little annoying (i dont like 2.g3 against QGD anyway).
But now I get sadled with the problem of being forced to play queens gambit, in which i get experience ONLY against 1..e6 which is fairly rare, while im sure my opponent is quite familiar with it.
The triangle poses the extra problem, that if I intend to play the exchange, then I will be forced against the triangle to play an inferior version because I have no useful move to wait for the knight to reach f6.
Perhaps I should suck it up and play 2.g3