why i think e4 c5 nf3 e6 is better that e4 c5 nf3 d6

Sort:
Avatar of ajian
[COMMENT DELETED]
Avatar of Crazychessplaya

Mmm hmm.

Avatar of chessmaster102

I've never seen that early 4...d5 i'll try it out.

Avatar of ivandh
Crazychessplaya wrote:

Mmm hmm.


Yep.

Avatar of ajian

sorry, i meant better than

Avatar of Crazychessplaya
ajian wrote:

sorry, i meant better than


Mmm hmm. 

Avatar of Here_Is_Plenty

How about 5) Bb5+ after d5?

Avatar of ajian

 if Bb5+,

Avatar of pfren

5.Bb5+ looks like a strong move. If 5...Bd7 then 6.Bxd7? is a patzer's move, but 6.ed5 looks good: 6...ed5 (6...Bxb5? 7.Nxb5 ed5 8.Qxd5 is a routine pawn steal) 7.0-0 with a good variation of an IQP.

5.ed5 is also strong: 5...Qxd5 6.Nc3 Bb4 and now 7.Nb5! is quite awkward for Black.

If Black wants to play ...d5 that early, then his best try is 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nxd4 d5!? which is certainly provocative, but not easy at all to refute.

Avatar of ajian

what if black continues with Qa5 + instead of Bxb5?

Avatar of Andnar
ajian wrote:

what if black continues with Qa5 + instead of Bxb5?


 

I think white plays Nc3 , blocking check and defending the Bishop on b5

Avatar of ajian

dimphonenix, its for positional reasons, not to win the bishop

Avatar of Andnar
ajian wrote:

dimphonenix, its for positional reasons, not to win the bishop


 What does black play next?

Avatar of pfren
ajian wrote:

what if black continues with Qa5 + instead of Bxb5?


6...Bxb5 7.Nxb5 Qa5+ then either knight on c3 is a safe pawn up (8.N1c3 looks "better"). If 6...Qa5+ then 7.Bd2 (7.Nc3 is also strong enough) and Black can pack and go home.

Avatar of ajian
[COMMENT DELETED]
Avatar of ajian

dinphoenix, exd

Avatar of Andnar
ajian wrote:

dinphoenix, exd


 Then O-O, after ..Be7 there are threats like Nxd5 (In regards to c7 tactics)

Avatar of pfren

To my poor positional understanding, the whole idea here is really unplayable. The "best" position with the IQP is simply miserable.

But 2...Nc6 3.d4 ed4 4.Nxd4 d5!? is anti-positional, but mighty playable. It has a decent record, even against GM opposition.

Avatar of pfren
AnthonyCG wrote:

What about 2...Nc6 3.d4 ed 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e6? That leads to IQPs but are they always bad there?


No, they are not bad. But this is is just another Sicilian, totally irrelevant to the one discussed here.

Avatar of chessmaster102
pfren wrote:

5.Bb5+ looks like a strong move. If 5...Bd7 then 6.Bxd7? is a patzer's move, but 6.ed5 looks good: 6...ed5 (6...Bxb5? 7.Nxb5 ed5 8.Qxd5 is a routine pawn steal) 7.0-0 with a good variation of an IQP.

5.ed5 is also strong: 5...Qxd5 6.Nc3 Bb4 and now 7.Nb5! is quite awkward for Black.

If Black wants to play ...d5 that early, then his best try is 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nxd4 d5!? which is certainly provocative, but not easy at all to refute.


 THpught about tryin the early 4...d5 but thought it over and came up with the exact same line you did with 7.0-0 and came up with the same evaluation as Anthony CG which is a IQP with black having passive pieces.