why is King's Indian Defence considered a great opening while Pirc defence is considered bad?
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aren't they practically the same? do i fail to see the difference between them? please do explain, i would really appreciate that.
i saw a GM saying pirc defence is one of the worst defence as black while the same cant be said about king's indian which has such a great reputation. it really left me wondering
So the quick answer is that the KID is already volatile at best, so “losing” the tempo White would take to play c4 takes an already volatile structure and puts it in dubious territory. Much better is to play d6 g6, (making sure not to threaten White’s pawn on e4 forcing Nc3), allowing White the extra time and space to play c4 and transpose to a KID. It won’t always work but you might have some success.
Jun 8, 2023
0
#3
Aradhya6669 wrote:
aren't they practically the same? do i fail to see the difference between them? please do explain, i would really appreciate that. i saw a GM saying pirc defence is one of the worst defence as black while the same cant be said about king's indian which has such a great reputation. it really left me wondering
They are not the same at all. It is like saying Vanilla Icing and Cottage Cheese taste the same as they are both white.
There is a MAJOR difference between the Pirc and KID. White's c-pawn. That c-pawn makes a HUGE difference.
In the Pirc, Black's basis is that with c4 not played, it is easier to get in ...b7-b5-b4 to drive the Knight away from c3, which is often the only thing guarding e4. Also, d4 is NOT weak for White. If White can get e4 amply protected, then he can move the Knight, play c2-c3, and d4 is a non-issue. Therefore, Black's only threat is the e-pawn on e4.
In the Kings Indian Defense, ...b7-b5 just isn't happening. The weakness for White in the Kings Indian is NOT e4. White can easily play f3, whereas in the Pirc, it is usually either f4 or Nf3, both of which prevent f3. Instead, the problem for White in the Kings Indian is the d4-square. With both e4 and c4 played, d4 can only be covered by pieces. This is the reason for ...e5. Attack d4 again. Get him to advance d5. Now with all of his pawns on light squares, e4 d5 and c4, the dark squares for White are weak. The center is also blocked, unlike in the Pirc, which allows Black to storm the Kingside without having to worry about opening up his own king.
Totally different opening all together!
Jun 8, 2023
0
#4
ThrillerFan wrote:
Aradhya6669 wrote:
aren't they practically the same? do i fail to see the difference between them? please do explain, i would really appreciate that. i saw a GM saying pirc defence is one of the worst defence as black while the same cant be said about king's indian which has such a great reputation. it really left me wondering
They are not the same at all. It is like saying Vanilla Icing and Cottage Cheese taste the same as they are both white.
There is a MAJOR difference between the Pirc and KID. White's c-pawn. That c-pawn makes a HUGE difference.
In the Pirc, Black's basis is that with c4 not played, it is easier to get in ...b7-b5-b4 to drive the Knight away from c3, which is often the only thing guarding e4. Also, d4 is NOT weak for White. If White can get e4 amply protected, then he can move the Knight, play c2-c3, and d4 is a non-issue. Therefore, Black's only threat is the e-pawn on e4.
In the Kings Indian Defense, ...b7-b5 just isn't happening. The weakness for White in the Kings Indian is NOT e4. White can easily play f3, whereas in the Pirc, it is usually either f4 or Nf3, both of which prevent f3. Instead, the problem for White in the Kings Indian is the d4-square. With both e4 and c4 played, d4 can only be covered by pieces. This is the reason for ...e5. Attack d4 again. Get him to advance d5. Now with all of his pawns on light squares, e4 d5 and c4, the dark squares for White are weak. The center is also blocked, unlike in the Pirc, which allows Black to storm the Kingside without having to worry about opening up his own king.
Totally different opening all together!
no b5? what is the panno?
Hello
Jun 8, 2023
0
#6
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:
Aradhya6669 wrote:
aren't they practically the same? do i fail to see the difference between them? please do explain, i would really appreciate that. i saw a GM saying pirc defence is one of the worst defence as black while the same cant be said about king's indian which has such a great reputation. it really left me wondering
They are not the same at all. It is like saying Vanilla Icing and Cottage Cheese taste the same as they are both white.
There is a MAJOR difference between the Pirc and KID. White's c-pawn. That c-pawn makes a HUGE difference.
In the Pirc, Black's basis is that with c4 not played, it is easier to get in ...b7-b5-b4 to drive the Knight away from c3, which is often the only thing guarding e4. Also, d4 is NOT weak for White. If White can get e4 amply protected, then he can move the Knight, play c2-c3, and d4 is a non-issue. Therefore, Black's only threat is the e-pawn on e4.
In the Kings Indian Defense, ...b7-b5 just isn't happening. The weakness for White in the Kings Indian is NOT e4. White can easily play f3, whereas in the Pirc, it is usually either f4 or Nf3, both of which prevent f3. Instead, the problem for White in the Kings Indian is the d4-square. With both e4 and c4 played, d4 can only be covered by pieces. This is the reason for ...e5. Attack d4 again. Get him to advance d5. Now with all of his pawns on light squares, e4 d5 and c4, the dark squares for White are weak. The center is also blocked, unlike in the Pirc, which allows Black to storm the Kingside without having to worry about opening up his own king.
Totally different opening all together!
no b5? what is the panno?
The exception, not the rule. The purpose ain't the same either. Usually in the Saemisch, White's King is on the Queenside, and so Black doesn't care if it costs him a pawn - he is opening up lines to the White King.
Its purpose has NOTHING to do with the purpose behind ...b5 in the Pirc. You are not after the e4-pawn.