I agree Scott. I actually believe that Bishop has talked more rubbish about opening theory than anybody on this thread. Most of what FoS has said makes a lot of sense to me, but certainly not everything.
why is ruy lopez considered the strongest
Sort:
Scottrf @
You can't understand the difference. To choose someone an inferior position compares to Morphy defense does not means that his chances are absolutely less to fight for a good result. Every option has some dynamic to play for even the most underrated Cozio but that not proves that theoretically is better.
Returning to the main point, when white chooses the Ruy Lopez does exactly that thing, is following the logical theory to put pressure. What black will do depends from who is playing black pieces and I don't know more than Anand and Carlsen to understand their preferences.
From what I sow the last two years, Carlsen was more ready to play in uncharted territory's.
Jul 29, 2015
0
#165
Fiveofswords wrote:
I cant think of any line in the italian where black plays bb7.
A quick search with ChessBase turns up just over 10,000 games with the ECO Codes C50-C59 in which Black played Bc8-b7. Maybe it's not really a "line", but it gets played often enough.
Fiveofswords wrote:
no...my argument is based on my belief that various openings are equally good. you are still trying to assume that one opening must be the best. how can you justify that assumption? by clinging to such an assumption it actually has the exact opposite implications than you seem to think. because that would mean that when gms dont play the ruy but something else instead they must just like having inferior positions. so you think kasparov was just trying to handicap himself when he played the scotch? funny isnt it...your disagreement is actually just supporting my case......and anyway if you dont see how reb et all are acting stupid and childish then i really dont need to waste time with you either. if self respect is too arrogant for you then you can basically kiss my rear.
You're getting what other people have said mixed up with what I have. I don't blame you for that. You have had to defend yourself from just about every angle in this thread. For what it's worth, I think you've done a pretty good job. Anyway, I have not shared my view on whether or not any one opening or variation should be considered the best at any point during this thread (due to my recollection at least) and I don't see how I have implied any such assumption in the quoted passage.
Jul 29, 2015
0
#167
I personally love seeing Morohy Defense as white. I usually play the Ruy or the KG as white after e5, however I would have to be a moron to claim 3.Bb5 is the best move bar none.
I like the steinitz deferred with black against the ruy with a Nf6-g6-Bg7 setup. I still think a6 and b5 are ok but not necessarily key since most of blacks play will be on the kingside. What I hate seeing as white the most is definitely the Berlin. I think Nakamura had a great idea of an immediate fianchetto in the Berlin at this years US Champs vs Sevian where even the commentators were shocked how suddenly black was up a bunch of tempos.
Can we just presume that there's nothing that you understand that I don't Mr. g5? It will save time.
You cannot prove that the Berlin is inferior to the Morphy defence.
In fact the Berlin scores better and is used at the absolute highest level. Doesn't exactly support your assertions.
It's a matter of preference and a6 and b5 are not forced. Black has multiple ways to play.
Jul 29, 2015
0
#169
X_PLAYER_J_X wrote:
I am done talking to you Bg5.
Have a nice day
It is clear that FOS is not the biggest fool in the thread.
Jul 29, 2015
0
#170
A6 and b5 are not inferior either. The fact that white can play a4 is irrelevant. Big whoopteedoo. White played a4...and? Good luck winning a game with that "weakness."
lolurspammed wrote:
A6 and b5 are not inferior either. The fact that white can play a4 is irrelevant. Big whoopteedoo. White played a4...and? Good luck winning a game with that "weakness."
I haven't said they are, just incase that was your interpretation.
Fiveofswords wrote:
maybe you [Sandbagger] could find where i said that the top players do not play the most effective openings...
I am going to simplify this a little. For me if not for you. We're talking about this. I probably wasn't clear in what I was disagreeing with. I don't think you did say that. I just also don't think that Sandbagger said that you did either. He may think that you did, he may not. I don't know, but I don't think that he said it. This is what he said, and I don't think he says that you believe GMs plays inferior openings:
"That 2700+ players, whose financial well-being depends on them staying in this elite group choose openings because they're fashionable instead of choosing the most effective ones ?"
That is my interpretation at least.
Ziryab @
It's clearly that your dog has more brain than you. Perhaps you should put him play for you.
Scottrf @ I doubt anymore that you can be a chess student. It's your mental instability inappropriate to understand this game. Take Ziryab and his dog and go for Waffles!!
I think it's clear that GMs, despite their wellbeing being based on results, will play lines they consider inferior for a few reasons:
They have found a novelty which is hard to refute OTB.
Their opponent is better versed in the mainlines.
The theory of the 'better' line is well enough known to get to a dry position, and they aren't happy with a drawn.
They are playing a weaker opponent and want to get out of book.
Bishop_g5 wrote:
Ziryab @
It's clearly that your dog has more brain than you. Perhaps you should put him play for you.
Scottrf @ I doubt anymore that you can be a chess student. It's your mental instability inappropriate to understand this game. Take Ziryab and his dog and go for Waffles!!
You haven't actually responded to any point or given any evidence that the Berlin is inferior. Just ad hominems. It shows that you aren't confident in your side of the debate.
How are you fit to teach anyone anyway? Your ratings are poor. Not as bad as your English though.
Jul 29, 2015
0
#176
Fiveofswords wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
Fiveofswords wrote:
I cant think of any line in the italian where black plays bb7.
A quick search with ChessBase turns up just over 10,000 games with the ECO Codes C50-C59 in which Black played Bc8-b7. Maybe it's not really a "line", but it gets played often enough.
oh lol what...move 30? yes maybe its not a line.
That YOU don't know it proves that it doesn't exist.
Jul 29, 2015
0
#177
Dirty_Sandbagger wrote:
FOS, are you ok ?
I remember thinking of you as a polite and helpful guy when I joined this site, but lately your posts have been increasingly combative. Something seems to have made you much more bitter then you were before.
Take a look at yourself: you spend a lot of time playing chess, and probably even more time posting about it. Yet you don't seem to go out of your home a lot to play chess otb.
Your posting habits grow increasingly weird - not only do you double post, but you have also quadruple posted a lot (probably even made more than 4 posts in a row at times). Noone else on this site seems to be doing that.
You are also doing a lot of chest thumping in this thread in regards to your intellect/intelligence/whatever which so far has never convinced anyone on the internet - you need to show a high intellect in your postings to impress us, not just claim one.
And what is it that you are actually arguing about here ?
That you know better than all these titled players ? That 2700+ players, whose financial well-being depends on them staying in this elite group choose openings because they're fashionable instead of choosing the most effective ones ? Really ?
Take a step back and use your analytical abilities on your own position in life - you show some of the signs of nearing a mental meltdown.
This I would consider a display of intelligence (and consideration).
Fiveofswords wrote:
and all of this is very easily clarified if we settle the question of who here thinks the game of chess is winning for white with perfect play. does anyone think that? i dont think thats a popular idea among strong gms :p
Moot point since it can't be proven (any time soon) that chess is a draw with best play. And you have repeatedly rejected the appeal to authority in logical debates, so what does it matter what the GMs think?
Jul 29, 2015
0
#179
Fiveofswords wrote:
statistically white seems to win more in the kg than the ruy. of course he also loses a lot more. i dont read too much into statistics but that does make it reasonable to say that the kings gambit is a logical choice if you absolutely must win with white. its also a good practical choice if black doesnt know much about the opening...its very dangerous if people are unprepared (thus its respectable history)...or even if people are prepared perhaps they are less prepared than their pet line of the ruy or petroff or whatever.
The moment you say "if black doesn't know", immediately all subsequent statements are 100% invalid!
Don't ever base validity on an if, and especially one that assumes stupidity by the opponent
On that basis, you take one of two approaches. You assume your opponent knows theory (safe assumption when playing an Expert, Master, or GM) and play what's theoretically best, or you assume your opponent doesn't know theory and play something different, at which point, you can throw statistics out the window completely, and whether you go King's Gambit or 1.e4 e5 2.h4 makes no difference if your opponent knows nothing about openings, so the King's Gambit argument is baloney!
Jul 29, 2015
0
#180
Fiveofswords wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
Fiveofswords wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
Fiveofswords wrote:
I cant think of any line in the italian where black plays bb7.
A quick search with ChessBase turns up just over 10,000 games with the ECO Codes C50-C59 in which Black played Bc8-b7. Maybe it's not really a "line", but it gets played often enough.
oh lol what...move 30? yes maybe its not a line.
That YOU don't know it proves that it doesn't exist.
really? how does 'i cant think of a line' translate for you into 'i know all possible lines'...lol...well i guess that explains the mystery of how people think im arrogant. just start out assuming it then confirmation bias does the rest
I KNEW it was a line, so I did a quick data search to see if your memory (or knowledge) could be provoked by information. You blew it off (oh lol what...move 30?)--yes, THAT struck me as arrogant. You might have said, "maybe it is a line." ECO was handy on my computer, so I offered you a screenshot.
Smart people (I know quite a few) admit when they are wrong.
It's even a bit of a cliché to note that when a young man or woman goes on to college and then graduate school, he or she learns the depths and breadths of his or her own ignorance. You've shown no such knowledge. Maybe you are really smart, but very poorly educated.
To be fair, Bishop is also saying he knows better than World Champions, Carlsen and Anand by telling them that a6 and b5 are better than the Berlin they played last championship match.