Why Nf6 instead e6 against D4 if someone is a french defense lover?

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Xbiker

Hello, 

I am a sicilian player, but my second option is the French, I do love it as well, so when I play against d4 I always play e6, if I get into French is fine for me, I like to play it and I feel comfortable with it.

What draws my attention is that I see a lot players expert in French, that against d4, prefers to play Nf6, but, why? 

Thanks,

PS: I have to ask my last teacher that was the case, 2200 ELO, expert in French, and in his begginings played 2e6 and switched to Nf6, it is not the first case I have seen, there might be a reason that I do not get to understand

mariners234

1.d4 players put a lot of study time into 1...e6 because that is a flexible move that can become a queen's gambit or Nimzo (or queen's indian)

So a 1.d4 player is likely to play 2.c4 or 2.Nf3 in response to 1...e6 because they will play to their strengths.

The French defense is something a 1.e4 player prepares for, so if a 1.d4 player has never played 1.e4, then they would have to be very stupid to play 2.e4 and enter into a defense they haven't studied.

As for 1...Nf6, it's more flexible. Not only does it not move a center pawn, but it doesn't block the c8 bishop's kingside diagonal. Of course 1...e6 is a perfectly good move... but not with the intention of getting a french heh.

Tdrev

while you can play 1...e6 i find that starting with Nf6 can give you more interestning choices against the sidelines like the colle and london. as soon as you play e6 you block in your bishop

blueemu

There's absolutely nothing wrong with answering 1. d4 with 1. ... e6.

It's just as playable as 1. ... Nf6.

mariners234

It's just as playable, but also, Nf6 is played 10x more often. Nf6 isn't better, but it is more flexible.

Of course none of this has anything to do with trying to get a french after 1.d4

 

 

ThrillerFan
Xbiker wrote:

Hello, 

I am a sicilian player, but my second option is the French, I do love it as well, so when I play against d4 I always play e6, if I get into French is fine for me, I like to play it and I feel comfortable with it.

 

What draws my attention is that I see a lot players expert in French, that against d4, prefers to play Nf6, but, why? 

Thanks,

PS: I have to ask my last teacher that was the case, 2200 ELO, expert in French, and in his begginings played 2e6 and switched to Nf6, it is not the first case I have seen, there might be a reason that I do not get to understand

 

A lot depends on what you intend to play against 2.c4 and 2.Nf3.  As a French player, the brief time that I played the Nimzo-Indian or Queen's Gambit Declined, I did indeed play 1...e6.


However, not everyone that plays the French plays those defenses against 1.d4, and I am amongst those.  While I could play the Nimzo-Indian or QGD, and have played it, my primary defense against 1.d4 is the King's Indian Defense, and 1...e6 kinda kills that possibility.

 

It actually makes sense for a French player to play the King's Indian Defense.  Both often (though not always) lead to blocked positions.  Note that "closed" and "blocked" are not the same thing.  The QGD is a closed opening.  Blocked implies at minimum the two central files are blocked, and possibly more than that, and play is on the wings, not in the center.

 

So one thing that can be wrong with 1...e6 is that what you play against 1.d4 normally doesn't feature an early e6.  If you play the French and QGD or French and Nimzo-Indian, 1...e6 is perfectly fine, but if you play the Slav or Grunfeld or King's Indian (what I play) or Benko/Benoni lines, then 1...Nf6 is the way to go.

Xbiker

 

At GM level when e6 is played the majority enter into the French 2e5 110.000 vs 22.000 2.c4 or 8.000 2.Nf3. So it seems they prefer to fight against the French than against other tipicial d4 setups.

From my experience, it is true that it is not the same at amateur level, and normally I will  always find myself fighting against the advanced variation and not usually against players that know it well, which is a plesaure.

So, as I play Nimzo and QGD it seems it is a good option, 

I think that with this order (apart of the flexibility of the bishop, which is true and I would like to have against London System for instance)  it mainly avoid the Trompowsky and give options to the French,  may be this one of the main reasons, as white players at high level seems delighted to enter French when they can. I do not know

Thanks for your answers.

 

c4_Strike

Nf6 is much better for me but if you want it a bit slower no one's stopping you from playing e6.

Marvel1810

If your opponent plays c4 after Nf6, then you can play both aggressive and crazy opening called Budapest Gambit.

The decline pawn variation 

Penigan
PawnstormPossie wrote:

I see you got your stats from the opening explorer here.

That's an overwhelming number of games for 2.e4 to be played.

I'd look into the validity of those numbers, where they came from, and if they include transpositions.

For instance:

1-Are these only online games only or are online games included?

2-Are online bullet/blitz games included?

3-How recent/old are the collection of games?

Yeah I think its based on the position only, as the explorer says 2. D4 (after 1. e4 e6) is the same amount of times played as 2. e4. (1.d4 e6) so probably not a fair way to tell which one is favored by grandmasters in that move order.

bobby_fischer7962

I play 1...e6 to play the Dutch as it avoids some anti-Dutch sidelines, I'm pretty sure a good portion do as its advised in certain books. I don't see much of a difference if you play 1...e6 seeing you would probably play 2...Nf6 in the next move against d4, but with a risk of getting a french, which you should be prepared to play anyways if you play 1...e6 and probably prefer it.

Xbiker
Penigan escribió:
PawnstormPossie wrote:

I see you got your stats from the opening explorer here.

That's an overwhelming number of games for 2.e4 to be played.

I'd look into the validity of those numbers, where they came from, and if they include transpositions.

For instance:

1-Are these only online games only or are online games included?

2-Are online bullet/blitz games included?

3-How recent/old are the collection of games?

Yeah I think its based on the position only, as the explorer says 2. D4 (after 1. e4 e6) is the same amount of times played as 2. e4. (1.d4 e6) so probably not a fair way to tell which one is favored by grandmasters in that move order.

 

Hello, that is true, I had not thought about it.

 

Xbiker
bobby_fischer7962 escribió:

I play 1...e6 to play the Dutch as it avoids some anti-Dutch sidelines, I'm pretty sure a good portion do as its advised in certain books. I don't see much of a difference if you play 1...e6 seeing you would probably play 2...Nf6 in the next move against d4, but with a risk of getting a french, which you should be prepared to play anyways if you play 1...e6 and probably prefer it.

I played Dutch, for this purpose, as you said, is perfect if you feel good with the French Defense

Xbiker
Geodesist216 escribió:

Nf6 is much better for me but if you want it a bit slower no one's stopping you from playing e6.

Not so much if what you want is to provoque the French, but yes nice move, probably better in general

Xbiker
Trognar escribió:

1d4 e6 is fine,but white will most likely avoid French defence with 2c4 or 2Nf3, so you will need to learn some d4 defence anyway.

Yes I play Nimzo and GGD as well, though some day I would like to try with KID, for what I see an interesting option for French Players as well, as Thrillefan said, and seems to be quite exciting

Xbiker
Xbiker escribió:
Trognar escribió:

1d4 e6 is fine,but white will most likely avoid French defence with 2c4 or 2Nf3, so you will need to learn some d4 defence anyway.

Yes I play Nimzo and GGD as well, though some day I would like to try with KID, for what I see an interesting option for French Players as well, as Thrillefan said there are similarities in the style, and it seems to be quite exciting

 

Pulpofeira
ThrillerFan escribió:
Xbiker wrote:

Hello, 

I am a sicilian player, but my second option is the French, I do love it as well, so when I play against d4 I always play e6, if I get into French is fine for me, I like to play it and I feel comfortable with it.

 

What draws my attention is that I see a lot players expert in French, that against d4, prefers to play Nf6, but, why? 

Thanks,

PS: I have to ask my last teacher that was the case, 2200 ELO, expert in French, and in his begginings played 2e6 and switched to Nf6, it is not the first case I have seen, there might be a reason that I do not get to understand

 

A lot depends on what you intend to play against 2.c4 and 2.Nf3.  As a French player, the brief time that I played the Nimzo-Indian or Queen's Gambit Declined, I did indeed play 1...e6.


However, not everyone that plays the French plays those defenses against 1.d4, and I am amongst those.  While I could play the Nimzo-Indian or QGD, and have played it, my primary defense against 1.d4 is the King's Indian Defense, and 1...e6 kinda kills that possibility.

 

It actually makes sense for a French player to play the King's Indian Defense.  Both often (though not always) lead to blocked positions.  Note that "closed" and "blocked" are not the same thing.  The QGD is a closed opening.  Blocked implies at minimum the two central files are blocked, and possibly more than that, and play is on the wings, not in the center.

 

So one thing that can be wrong with 1...e6 is that what you play against 1.d4 normally doesn't feature an early e6.  If you play the French and QGD or French and Nimzo-Indian, 1...e6 is perfectly fine, but if you play the Slav or Grunfeld or King's Indian (what I play) or Benko/Benoni lines, then 1...Nf6 is the way to go.

Great post.