Why players say that traxler countergambit is no good?

Sort:
Avatar of Bullsfan_85

First of all, people say it's bad because it is. Second, after 4.Bc5...... 5.Nxf7 is better than 5.Bxf7+.... you simply don't capture the bishop after Bxf2+ play Kf1 instead. White is still forking the rook and queen so after Qe7 take the rook and white is better.

Avatar of Conquistador
Bullsfan_85 wrote:

First of all, people say it's bad because it is. Second, after 4.Bc5...... 5.Nxf7 is better than 5.Bxf7+.... you simply don't capture the bishop after Bxf2+ play Kf1 instead. White is still forking the rook and queen so after Qe7 take the rook and white is better.

And this is exactly what I am talking about.  Absolute ignorance.

So you are completely wrong about 5.Nxf7 as black is equalized in all lines.  For your example line, you have failed to even realize that the main line goes:

5.Nxf7 Bxf2+ 6.Kf1 Qe7 7.Nxh8 d5 8.exd5 Nd4 which reaches the main position.  An example line is 9.d6 Qxd6 10.Nf7 Qe7 which is proven to be equal though it requires some effort from black.

5.Bxf7+ is definitely the better move.  

5.Bxf7+ Ke7 6.Bb3 d6 mentioned earlier in the thread has a major problem in 7.Nf7 Qf8 8.Rf1 Rg8 9.Ng5

5.Bxf7+ Ke7 6.Bb3 Qe8 is much better where a line is 7.d3 d6 8.Be3 Qg6 9.Nf3 Bg4 10.Bxc5 dxc5 11.Nbd2 Raf8 12.0-0 Nd4.  

Now with best play black only gets a half pawn worth of compensation, but it's not bad for the reasons people say it is.  It's more an issue with a large amount of theory and there are many perpetual checks available at the top level.

5.d4 is a move that surprisingly does not get any attention when it's one of the bigger issues black has to deal with.

Avatar of MistApollo4

something like this

Avatar of heine-borel

" It's more an issue with a large amount of theory and there are many perpetual checks available at the top level."

^Exactly. Now, you have 2 options. 

(1) Your opponent basically can force you to take a draw, or he can simply play on with a slight advantage. If you don't know the theory, you're screwed btw. 

(2) You get to sacrifice a pawn with full compensation, active and easy play, with an objectively equal position, and you don't need to know that much theory to play it; the moves come naturally. 

This is why the TCG is "bad". 

Avatar of TheBlunderfulPlayer
Bullsfan_85 wrote:

First of all, people say it's bad because it is. Second, after 4.Bc5...... 5.Nxf7 is better than 5.Bxf7+.... you simply don't capture the bishop after Bxf2+ play Kf1 instead. White is still forking the rook and queen so after Qe7 take the rook and white is better.

It has been proven by opening theory that 5. Bxf7+! is far better than 5. Nxf7.

Avatar of robertjames_perez

rf8

Avatar of gourab

I find Traxler is good in all variations. Though lots of theory involved. I play it regularly and i win unless i made mistakes myself. I consider white has no chance if he accepts traxler. For all lines in Traxler visit youtube . There is an Indian guy called GJ Chess has 3/4 series of video on Traxler and it will help you. Regarding bxf7...Traxler still can happen in this line because i played . I learnet that Traxler can still happen in this line from top level play. Collection is in chessgames.com, search in heading of "wandering tour through Traxler"...........even search in google will lead you to this wonderful games of Traxler. Combine GJ Chess video and games collection and you will be the winner.
To my judgement best way to refute Traxler is simply play d3 to support e4 and bring dark bishop in play (not explaining everything)

Avatar of pfren

The little tried 5.Bxf7+ (only an idiot, or a masochist would play 5.Nxf7, although I can't exclude a masochistic idiot as well) 5...Ke7 6.Bc4 is close to being an outright refutation.

There was a debate between 6.Bb3 and 6.Bd5 for a long time (actually both give white the advantage) but it seems that the best move is none of them.

And of course Buecker's 5.d4 (#22) is also tough to deal with.

Avatar of TheBlunderfulPlayer
gourab wrote:

I find Traxler is good in all variations. Though lots of theory involved. I play it regularly and i win unless i made mistakes myself. I consider white has no chance if he accepts traxler. For all lines in Traxler visit youtube . There is an Indian guy called GJ Chess has 3/4 series of video on Traxler and it will help you. Regarding bxf7...Traxler still can happen in this line because i played . I learnet that Traxler can still happen in this line from top level play. Collection is in chessgames.com, search in heading of "wandering tour through Traxler"...........even search in google will lead you to this wonderful games of Traxler. Combine GJ Chess video and games collection and you will be the winner.
To my judgement best way to refute Traxler is simply play d3 to support e4 and bring dark bishop in play (not explaining everything)

So, you're saying that winning with an opening means that the opening played is good? If that's what you mean, then sorry, but it doesn't work like that. Why use such flawed logic when tying to claim that an opening is good?

Avatar of robertjames_perez

I do not trust opening theory

Avatar of TheBlunderfulPlayer
robertjames_perez wrote:

I do not trust opening theory

Do you seriously think that all the analysis regarding the Traxler throughout the years has led to a wrong conclusion, and that YOU are right? Okay, got it!

Avatar of pfren
robertjames_perez wrote:

I do not trust opening theory

Nobody cares.

Avatar of robertjames_perez

But I  have the theory that says that develop your pieces  rather than grabbing material

Avatar of robertjames_perez

sorry principle 

Avatar of TheBlunderfulPlayer

So, if you have a chance to grab material in the opening and gain a winning advantage as a result, are you seriously going to "not grab material" and go for development? Whether or not you consider 5. Bxf7+ as grabbing material, it obviously gives White the advantage.

Avatar of robertjames_perez

dcftp (dangerous compensation for the pawn)  would be gotten by black if he used the traxler and white replied with Bxf7

Avatar of robertjames_perez

Play it against me!

Avatar of robertjames_perez

I drew against fritz 13  in the  traxler

Avatar of ArgoNavis

And I have a magical pony who is flying through the sky in a magical...

Avatar of heine-borel

The OP hasn't played a single game in the Traxler on this site.