You mean 1..e5? and the masters play 2 e4?
I think you are just looking at the result of transpositions to the Center Game-- 1 e4 e5 2 d4
Why the hell do masters decline the Englund Gambit?
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Oct 28, 2022
0
#3
Must be transpositions indeed, but it looks weird. In the lichess database 98% says 2. dxe5, here on chess.com around 90% 2. e4.
Oct 28, 2022
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#5
Chess.com includes transpositions. Of course 1.e4 e5 2. d4 has occurred much more times in master play than d4 e5.
I heard it's convention not to take the gambit.
The reason is probably to implicitly state to the opponent: you played a garbage opening, let's play actual chess. As a way to consolidate professional integrity before going off on amateur-level gambit lines (oooh the threat is Qc1# I am so scared). Also, not taking the gambit is more interesting because you get faster development, which to many masters will be worth the less fortunate evaluation at this stage where anything is possible anyway.
I personally just accept the gambit and then thrash the hell out of my opponent with a +2 advantage. Granted, it's not always easy. But let's forget about this opening and move on shall we, it's the 21st century era of computer-driven chess.
Oct 28, 2022
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#7
I don't know much about the Englund, but in some openings the only people who play main lines are beginners and professional players. Everyone in between realizes that the main line is impractical. If you're only going to see a gambit once in 1000 games, then it makes sense to find a simple transposition and ignore the opening after that.
(But yeah, the database can be misleading)
Oct 28, 2022
0
#8
zone_chess wrote:
I heard it's convention not to take the gambit.
The reason is probably to implicitly state to the opponent: you played a garbage opening, let's play actual chess. As a way to consolidate professional integrity before going off on amateur-level gambit lines (oooh the threat is Qc1# I am so scared). Also, not taking the gambit is more interesting because you get faster development, which to many masters will be worth the less fortunate evaluation at this stage where anything is possible anyway.
I personally just accept the gambit and then thrash the hell out of my opponent with a +2 advantage. Granted, it's not always easy. But let's forget about this opening and move on shall we, it's the 21st century era of computer-driven chess.
hey in my defense i play 3... d6, not Qe7. If they take its only like +.7 or something
1c0nIc wrote:
hey in my defense i play 3... d6, not Qe7. If they take its only like +.7 or something
More like something than +.7
Oct 28, 2022
0
#10
pfren wrote:
1c0nIc wrote:
hey in my defense i play 3... d6, not Qe7. If they take its only like +.7 or something
More like something than +.7
I-
ima switch to d5 lol
There's a simple answer. Who'd be crazy enough to study the Englund Gambit and then play it at a tournament? And then who'd be crazy enough to challenge them?
If I knew people were going to decline the Englund Gambit, I'd play it in every game.
Oct 29, 2022
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#13
llama36 wrote:
(...) If you're only going to see a gambit once in 1000 games (...)
On the lower levels the Englund is far more popular. I see it in 6% of my 1. d4 games and winning against it is more complicated then I thought. It took me while before I understood why:
1. it's not about one trap but about two:
- (trap a) 2. ...Bc5; black tries to open the d file and sacrifices the bishop on Bf2+, that lures my king away and they take my queen)
- (trap b) 2. ...Nc6 Bf4 Qe7 threatening ...Qb4+ with a double attack on the bishop and b pawn.
2. both traps are easy to counter (trap a) Nc3 covering the queen and (trap b) Bd2 solving the check, saving the bishop and gaining tempo on the queen. But from now on the games are a bit unusual, weird. And i found it difficult to adapt to this especially after the trap b.
3. last reason why I had difficulties: it stressed me. I knew I was +1.5 (or more) and I hád to win.
I did some study and since I feel happy when I see ...e5. Though I just see that my score against ...d6 is bad. I'll have a look at that :-).
Turns out it's just a major problem with the chess.com explorer, which I made a forum topic about:
If you check the Lichess master explorer, you'll find that dxe5 (gambit accepted) is played 90% of the time.
As justbefair and B1ZMARK already said, chess.com includes transpositions
Still don't see how including transpositions is useful though, considering you would want to know the most popular move in the current position. They should at least allow you to change the settings.
Oct 31, 2022
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#17
akchoo wrote:
Still don't see how including transpositions is useful though, considering you would want to know the most popular move in the current position. They should at least allow you to change the settings.
Who cares what the "most popular" move is anyway? Most popular and Best are NOT synonymous!
Case in point. The Bazooka Line of the Winawer
And now, the "Main Line" is 19.Bg2, but in actuality, it is not White's best move. His best move is 19.Rh6! Bb7 and only now 20.Bg2 a5 21.Be4 Ka7 22.Kf2 Ba6 23.Qf3 Nd5 with unclear play.
After the more popular 19.Bg2?!, 19...a5!! 20.Kf2 Ka7 21.Be4 Ba6 (Black gets this move in in one go rather than 2, the extra move for White being Rh6) 22.Qf3 Nd5 23.Rh6 Qe7 (Black's extra move compared to 19.Rh6) 24.Bd3 Bxd3 25.Qxd3 f6 26.exf6 Nxf6 27.Qf3 Rh7 28.Qxc6 Nd5 29.Qxe6 Rxh6 30.Qxh6 Re8 31.Ng3 d3 and the only reason White is not completely dead here is the available perpetual check, which he must take or it will be lights out for White. This is why 19.Bg2 is merely dubious and not a blunder. With 19.Rh6, Black has to play accurately to maintain the draw rather than White. Amazing how much of a difference one move can make.
So once again, popularity does not equate to soundness!
Ok so when I use Stockfish to analyse the Englund Gambit, it says dxe4 (gambit accepted) is the best move by a comfortable margin. The eval is +1.41 at depth 20 and +1.60 and depth 32. But checking the explorer, masters decline the gambit and play e4 about 90% of the time. And e4 is Stockfish's 5th favourite move! At depth 20, e4 is -0.06 eval. Do masters just play e4 because it transposes to the Centre Game which they are more familiar with?
Ok now I've just realised that only 285 masters have played the Englund Gambit and there are 2000 or so responses to the Englund Gambit? But there is no other way to get to the Englund Gambit except white plays d4 and black plays e5. I'm even more confused now, if anyone has an answer, it would be highly appreciated by my 800-elo brain.