Bobby Fischer
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A good book about the Fischer/Spassky match is "Bobby Fischer Goes To War" by David Edmonds & John Eidnow. There's suprisingly little chess in it, but lots of background on both players and the behind the scenes wranglings that went on before and during the match.
Sep 3, 2007
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#22
Even thought Fischer was one of the great American chess players of all times, (going by a couple of articles I have read related to Fischer) it seems that the FBI always kept and eye on Fischer and his Mother even after he became world champion, maybe in later years after Fischer became world champion the FBI mostly was trying to protect him, but I think that is something few people could be sure about if they were not in some way directely related to the case
chessbot3000 wrote: A good book about the Fischer/Spassky match is "Bobby Fischer Goes To War"
This book also has an appendix on the FBI's dossier. It would seem his mother, Regina was suspected of espionage, and some doubt is cast over Fischer's paternity.
BOBBY FISCHER TEACHES CHESS WAS ONE OF THE FUNDAMENTAL BOOKS I USED TO LEARN CHESS. dang caps=anyway= he was one of the best and at that time most prominent grand masters. he and he alone ignited the resurgence in chess playing in america at that time. regardless of the religious aspects or his personal twistedness, he epitomized in miniature the cold war between russia and america. his win gave america and americans morale support in a very difficult time. it was almost written in stone during that time before fischer that the russians couldn't be beaten in chess. you might say that he tore down some symbols that had been around for a while.regardless of his psyche and emotional baggage, he should be regarded as one of the "good guys".
Sep 3, 2007
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#25
Well to put it simply, if it wasn't for Fischer, there wouldn't have been ' play chess ' on BBC1 in the school holidays between ' Flash Gordon ' and ' Why don't you ? '. And no ' mastergame ' on BBC 2.Without these television gems in the 1970's there's every chance i wouldn't have been playing chess. Fischer created a chess boom at the time that i've yet to see since, bar the Kasparov, Short world championships in 1993.
Etienne wrote: Huh? This notion of "jewism" being transmitted by the mother is quite news to me... ethnicity however is not determined by cultural convention and you have to make the dinstinction of ethnical jew (which real term would be semitic, and not jew, but the two are very much interwined now) and cultural jew. And by the way, most of the jews of today have no common ancestry with the original 12 tribes, as there was a massive conversion movement to judaism among the Kazak empire at the time of Mohammed. Which would account for the "white" jews.
"Semitic" would be too imprecise. Jews aren't the only Semitic ethnic group, nor the only people who use Semitic languages.
The theory you're thinking of, which considers the supposed influx of converts from the Khazar (not Kazak) ethnic group to be the source of European Jewry, has been discredited and dismissed by every mainstream scholar on the subject. Modern historians other than Arthur Koestler have generally settled on the idea that the Ashkenazi (central and eastern European Jewish) ethnic group is descended from a combination of Jews who traveled through the Italian peninsula from Northern Africa and Jews who were already present in Europe in the declining years of the Roman Empire.
Of course, none of this has anything to do with Bobby Fischer's perception of his own ethnicity. :)
Sep 29, 2007
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#27
freezenyr wrote: Can anyone please recommend a high quality biography about Fischer? One that addresses his "issues" in a reasonable way? What an interesting person. To be a genius with such controversial opinions...I read a few months ago that he never plays traditional chess anymore; that he stays with the variant he invented.
yup - he will only play "chess 960" now (960 refers to the number of variations that the minor pieces can be arranged in, according to his rules of piece organization that includes - i think - the rolling of dice!).
it's actually a very interesting idea - an idea that challenges the notion that if given enough time and energy, a player can learn enough openings to render the first dozen moves of a game thoughtless. with chess 960, there are simply too many variations to be memorized. fischer's idea was to purify as much of the game as possible by removing one's ability to memorize their way through the opening. pretty cool!
that being said, he is a disgusting anti-semite, and i really feel sorry for him. too bad he brokedown and went nuts. the world could use as many intellectual heroes as possible. i still value his playing as probably the best there ever was - and i look up to his ambition and valiant performance on the board. a true gaming hero! but alas, not a general role-model for anyone but neo-nazis.
it's really too bad - i wanna like him, but i just can't anymore after hearing his recent rantings.
;-(
Sep 29, 2007
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#28
erik wrote: where is he now (Iceland?) and why did he go nuts?
I don't think he's nuts, well not with an IQ of 180+. He just holds views that repulse some people. Whether you agree with him or not, his views won't kill anyone. It's the people that may act on his views that are nuts.
jona004 wrote:
I don't think he's nuts, well not with an IQ of 180+. He just holds views that repulse some people. Whether you agree with him or not, his views won't kill anyone. It's the people that may act on his views that are nuts.
What does intelligence have to do with being nuts or not? Some of the greatest geniuses of all time have been certifiably insane.
Sep 30, 2007
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#30
HowDoesTheHorseMove wrote: jona004 wrote:
I don't think he's nuts, well not with an IQ of 180+. He just holds views that repulse some people. Whether you agree with him or not, his views won't kill anyone. It's the people that may act on his views that are nuts.
What does intelligence have to do with being nuts or not? Some of the greatest geniuses of all time have been certifiably insane.
Thats true, but whats the line you determine someone as nuts?
Sep 30, 2007
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#31
jona004 wrote:
Thats true, but whats the line you determine someone as nuts?
You know what? I've called him nuts before too. Maybe I should say socially inept, mentally disturbed, a little off, not all there, off base, outta touch, demented etc. No matter what we say, I get it.
Fischer went off the deep end a disappeared from the chess scene. He couldn't deal with reality and now he has to hide from his past. Instead of embracing his fame and fortune he became paranoid and squandered his physical possessions.He claims that his assets were stolen by "the Jews" but they were confiscated when he failed to return to America, afraid he would have been placed in jail.
So I won't say "nuts" anymore. I'll replace it with RAVING LUNATIC! Just listen to his interviews and read some of the shocking comments he made in interviews.
jona004 wrote
Thats true, but whats the line you determine someone as nuts?
When a normal behavior or tendency dominates a person's life to such an extent as to interfere with normal day to day living, that person is said to be mentally ill. I think it's safe to say that Robert Fischer falls into that category.
Sep 30, 2007
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#33
HowDoesTheHorseMove wrote: jona004 wrote
Thats true, but whats the line you determine someone as nuts?
When a normal behavior or tendency dominates a person's life to such an extent as to interfere with normal day to day living, that person is said to be mentally ill. I think it's safe to say that Robert Fischer falls into that category.
I couldn't agree more. Alcohol used to dominate my life, but thankfully doesn't anymore, so yes, you could say i was nuts. People that wash their hands all the while could also be called nuts through having a compulsive disorder. Bobby Fischer was nuts because he spent an unhealthy amount of time playing chess, thus letting the game dominate his life. Thanks HowDoesTheHorseMove, it's all become clear now. One thing though. Would he have become world champion if he hadn't let chess dominate his life?
Sep 30, 2007
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#34
jona004 wrote: HowDoesTheHorseMove wrote: jona004 wrote
Would he have become world champion if he hadn't let chess dominate his life?
I don't think he would have become champion. History is filled with compulsive, paranoid, obsessed crazy people that became larger than life. Good and bad.
jona004 wrote
Would he have become world champion if he hadn't let chess dominate his life?
Actually, I wasn't thinking of chess at all. My concern was with his paranoia and tendency to blame shady conspiracies for his self-made problems.
Sep 30, 2007
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#36
Why does anyone think that involvement in chess leads to mental problems??
I would have to assume that chess dominates, or has dominated the life of almost every grandmaster, yet relatively few of them, despite what people might say, develop severe mental problems.
Fischer was a great player in his time. He was a gentleman over the board and demonstrated respect for chess and respect for his opponents. What many people have termed his "antics" was nothing more than lack of submission to ureasonable authority. That Fischer I admire greatly.
The Fischer who used FIDE as an excuse not to defend his title, who used Jews and Americans as the causes of his self-inflicted problems, who spouts his venom and malice publically and with the absurdly mistaken belief that anyone cares what he thinks on any subject other than chess - That Fischer I despise.
Is he crazy?
Who cares.
Get 'em batgirl! I do blame chess, though, as one of the reasons for his personality. As far as the shift from "normal" to "nuts", maybe there never was one. Maybe he is who he is and the sole devotion to chess didn't help him allow for change in himself to form strong social understanding, and reasonable thought processes outside the realm of chess. If you notice on the famous chess quotes offered on this site, many many many great grandmasters say, "Chess is like life." Bobby says, "Chess is life." Something to think about. Chess certainly didn't help his overwhelming hubris (or rather the fame that came with the genius in his playing ability).
I thought, though, that when he played the match in Iceland against Spassky, he refused to come back to the states because of all the taxes our govt. wanted from his winning purse. And then when he didn't come back they (Bobby swears by "the Jews!") auctioned off everything he owned here, and still kept a warrant out for his arest. I don't know this to be fact, but it's what I've read from some sources and heard from different players.
Whats missing here is that none have mentioned that Fischer brought far more money/recognition and better conditions to our beloved game. Fischer did for chess what Ali did for boxing and made iot better and more lucrative for those that follow. The world championship matches before Fischer were played for "peanuts" compared to after Fischer. If for nothing else all chess professionals will always be indebted to Fischer. As for Fischer's "madness" I wonder if he would face the same persecution he faces today if he had said the same hateful things about muslims or baptists? :-)
Oct 2, 2007
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#39
HowDoesTheHorseMove wrote: jona004 wrote
Would he have become world champion if he hadn't let chess dominate his life?
Actually, I wasn't thinking of chess at all. My concern was with his paranoia and tendency to blame shady conspiracies for his self-made problems.
I know you wasn't, i was being sarcastic. But how do you know/prove Fischers wrong? Or likewise how does Fisher prove/know he's right?
jona004 wrote:
I know you wasn't, i was being sarcastic. But how do you know/prove Fischers wrong? Or likewise how does Fisher prove/know he's right?
Prove? I'm afraid I don't have the resources to prove anything either way, but it's fairly easy to demonstrate the irrational thought process at work.
Think of it this way: One day you are hit in the head by a falling chestnut. It hurts quite a lot and you are angered, particularly at the members of your least favorite minority group, since you know they're involved in a chestnut-throwing ring designed to make your life as painful as possible. You dismiss the fact that you are standing under a chestnut tree in autumn as a convenient cover.