Fischer: mentally disturbed or just mean spirited jerk? - Chess Forums - Page 2

NM TheOldReb

Oct 21, 2009

0

#21

When Fischer was 16, his mother moved out of their apartment to pursue medical training. Her friend Joan Rodker, who had met Regina when the two were "idealistic communists" living in Moscow in the 1930s, believes that Fischer resented his mother for being mostly absent as a mother, a communist activist and an admirer of the Soviet Union, and that this led to his hatred for the Soviet Union. In letters to Rodker, Fischer's mother states her desire to pursue her own "obsession" of training in medicine and writes that her son would have to live in their Brooklyn apartment without her: "It sounds terrible to leave a 16-year-old to his own devices, but he is probably happier that way."^[34] The apartment was on the edge of the Bedford-Stuyvesant district, which had one of the highest homicide and general crime rates in New York.^[35]

Gokukid

Oct 21, 2009

0

#22

Reb wrote:

When Fischer was 16, his mother moved out of their apartment to pursue medical training. Her friend Joan Rodker, who had met Regina when the two were "idealistic communists" living in Moscow in the 1930s, believes that Fischer resented his mother for being mostly absent as a mother, a communist activist and an admirer of the Soviet Union, and that this led to his hatred for the Soviet Union. In letters to Rodker, Fischer's mother states her desire to pursue her own "obsession" of training in medicine and writes that her son would have to live in their Brooklyn apartment without her: "It sounds terrible to leave a 16-year-old to his own devices, but he is probably happier that way."[34] The apartment was on the edge of the Bedford-Stuyvesant district, which had one of the highest homicide and general crime rates in New York.[35]

so that's the story. I had to correct my misspelled mysogynist to misygonist to misogynist. whew!

Gokukid

Oct 21, 2009

0

#23

And being put into custody in Pasadena jail just because of a mistaken identity is a no-no. Bobby Fischer must have thought he was equal to a hollywood celebrity, that everyone in the world sure know his name and especially his face. The policemen mistaken him for a certain criminal or something, and when they asked him of his name - well - bobby fischer being bobby fischer - refused to give them his name. Add this to his list of why he hated the U.S. justice system.

tryst

Oct 21, 2009

0

#24

Did he hate jewish people or did he hate zionism?

Feathered_serpent

Oct 21, 2009

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#25

Tchernobog wrote:

Where's the neutral or non-derogatory choice?

Apparently not to be found. I wonder what "really" happened behind the scenes that only Fischer and the Powers that Be know about?

There is never a good reason for blind hatred, that goes without saying. But I bet there's a lot more to the story than anyone here knows about.

Ricardo_Morro

Oct 21, 2009

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#26

Out of disgust for Fischer I gave away my cherished copy of "60 Memorable Games." Now I study Alekhine instead.

NM TheOldReb

Oct 21, 2009

0

#27

Ricardo_Morro wrote:

Out of disgust for Fischer I gave away my cherished copy of "60 Memorable Games." Now I study Alekhine instead.

This is very comical, considering Alekhine and his alleged nazi collaboration.

RetGuvvie98

Oct 21, 2009

0

#28

Reb wrote:

From what I have read of his mother she didnt have both oars in the water either. Its possible some of his problems were genetic ?

If you are suggesting that maybe Fischer didn't have both oars in the water, Reb,

I'd go a step further to ask: Does any chessplayer have both oars in the water ?

NM TheOldReb

Oct 21, 2009

0

#29

RetGuvvie98 wrote:

Reb wrote:

From what I have read of his mother she didnt have both oars in the water either. Its possible some of his problems were genetic ?

If you are suggesting that maybe Fischer didn't have both oars in the water, Reb,

I'd go a step further to ask: Does any chessplayer have both oars in the water ?

At that level , probably NOT !

king_warrior

Oct 21, 2009

0

#30

polydiatonic wrote:

gxtmf1 wrote:

Nut

Sounds like the pressure got to him. US champ at 14? Playing for the US against Spassky? And then, after devoting his whole life to chess, he becomes World Champion and there's nothing left to challenge him. I think that's what made him "break".

Yeah gxtmf1, I hear you. But I guess my question really has to do with my own mixed feelings about my continuing interest in him both as a person and a chess player. In my opinion he was one of a long line of top level chess players who have really been quite nuts.

Nuts!? Acording to who? You? Maybe someone else thinks the same for me, you, ... so are we ?

mrwrangler

Oct 21, 2009

0

#31

Fischer was mentally distured and a jerk, but maybe he was a product of his time. The Soviet block were plotting against him like they did with Reshevsky, giving their best candidates a cake walk when playing designated contender and to fight like hell against the leading non block contenders.

JG27Pyth

Oct 21, 2009

0

#32

I have the opposite problem as the OP. I try to dislike Fischer, but every time I see one of his games all I think is: damn he's good.

Great chess players who completely lose their marbles:

Morphy. Steinitz. Pillsbury (syphillis induced). Rubinstein.

Fischer didn't go completely nuts (babbling incoherently)... but he qualifies as nuts I think. I kinda want to include Reuben Fine on the list, shouldn't spouting Freudian analytic theory count as insane incoherent babbling?

I'm guessing there are more that I don't know about -- (Karl Emil Diemer goes nuts but I wouldn't call him a "great" -- maybe I would, his games are pretty darn amusing). Did Nezhmetdinov go crazy? He plays like someone who's going to go crazy momentarily.

polydiatonic

Oct 21, 2009

0

#33

king_warrior wrote:

polydiatonic wrote:

gxtmf1 wrote:

Nut

Sounds like the pressure got to him. US champ at 14? Playing for the US against Spassky? And then, after devoting his whole life to chess, he becomes World Champion and there's nothing left to challenge him. I think that's what made him "break".

Yeah gxtmf1, I hear you. But I guess my question really has to do with my own mixed feelings about my continuing interest in him both as a person and a chess player. In my opinion he was one of a long line of top level chess players who have really been quite nuts.

Nuts!? Acording to who? You? Maybe someone else thinks the same for me, you, ... so are we ?

"Nuts", yes...That's what I mean. I'd be surprised if somebody thought I was "nuts". Although I'd grant that various people might find me annoying, controlling, silly or whatever. If you think you're equally as "nuts" as Fischer, than I urgently suggest counseling for you. Btw, here's a page I just found with some interesting fischer stuff:

http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/fischer1.html

NM gbidari

Oct 21, 2009

0

#34

I don't believe Fischer became the anti-Semetic foaming at the mouth psycho we all loathed and pitied until he disappeared from chess. If you look at interviews before and shortly after he won the World title there is no ranting and raving about "the Jews." All that came afterward when he went into ultra-recluse mode where it's safe to say he lost his mind and re-emerged as a total mean-spirited lunatic. He was never like that before. Anyone that watches the Dick Cavett interview on YouTube can see for themselves he was not nuts then.

goldendog

Oct 21, 2009

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#35

It seems that he was "under control" when he was an active player but he was still holding virulent anti-jewish sentiments. Reshevsky and he were the first to arrive for the 1970 Palma Interzonal but there were no fireworks; Sammy said they walked and talked together, finding him quite friendly although his extreme views on communists and Jews and religion were well known.

"He has his view, I have mine. It didn't bother me."

It is later on that no conversation could be had with Fischer that he didn't introduce his slant on the Jews (and blacks).

DylanAM

Oct 21, 2009

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#36

Gokukid wrote:

hmp. everybody is a unique individual. let fischer be fischer, and you go and play chess. but don't do anything where you seemed fischer had failed, otherwise, others may write the same things about you. my feelings about fischer? i like him, no matter what. people grow old, get sick - physical, psychological. fischer's a lonely person - no wife, no kids, the chess pieces are his loyal friends. he talks to them, and they talk back to him. in the four corners of his room, he is their emperor, both sides of the kingdom, white and black. he would play the white pieces, and then go to the other side to play the black pieces. he would play against himself. everyday of his life. he would not talk about girls, no saturday nights for him, no taxes, just pure chess. you talk to him, he would get his pocketchess, like you don't exist. he's got his own world, outside of that, everybody's against him. whatever syndrome he had, i like him. but i'm not anti-jewish nor anti-american, nor anti-russian. fischer's got sick, dude. you can't allow yourself to go low his level of sanity. there's a boy inside every man, see the boy in the old fischer. the boy who just wanted to play chess, and be the very best in the entire planet. a boy seeking the love and guidance of his father. fischer never got the chance to call anyone dad when he grew up. and he never had a chance to be even called a dad himself. it got it into his head, being the cold war hero. he was primadona, and everybody else had to submit to his demands. but like the rest of us, fischer gets hungry, he sleeps, he eats like us, he farts like us.

Truer words have not been spoken. About as eloquent as you can put Fischer.

d4e4

Oct 21, 2009

0

#37

Agewise, I am a contemporary of Bobby Fischer (I was born about one year after him). We grew up in the same city (N.Y.C.) too, but of course with so many millions of people in the same city it was improbable that we'd ever meet.

Nonetheless, when I was about 14 years of age, Bobby started to become a local hero...and a national hero (or...at least to those of us who were interested in chess).

I used to study Bobby's games...along with games from a very many great chess players. I was impressed with the brilliancy of Bobby's play. In his day, he was at the pinnacle of world chess. And, his accusations that the Russians played to draw against each other and acted in a manner that hindered free and open competition, drew a sympathetic ear from me.

He seemed to have some idiosyncrasies, though. They weren't apparent in the early days. But, as time went on...well...

It is obvious to me, and I think anyone else who may wish to study the life of Bobby...and to read some of the insane things that came out of his mouth in the later days (do a Google or Bing...you'll find it) that he was paranoid and delusional...rabidly so.

For me, I salute Bobby for being one of the all-time greatest chess players and for inspiring me, my generation and two generations hence.

As for some of the things he said...well...if someone sane were to say those things, I would feel genuine hostility toward him. Sadly, though, he was simply "off his rocker".

Several years ago, I came across an elderly woman walking down the street. She was babbling...loudly...all sorts of nonsense. I thought to myself, from Macbeth: "...it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury...signifying nothing".

Idiot? Certainly not. Madman? Certainly yes! Shrug...same thing.

Gokukid

Oct 21, 2009

0

#38

DylanAM wrote:

Gokukid wrote:

hmp. everybody is a unique individual. let fischer be fischer, and you go and play chess. but don't do anything where you seemed fischer had failed, otherwise, others may write the same things about you. my feelings about fischer? i like him, no matter what. people grow old, get sick - physical, psychological. fischer's a lonely person - no wife, no kids, the chess pieces are his loyal friends. he talks to them, and they talk back to him. in the four corners of his room, he is their emperor, both sides of the kingdom, white and black. he would play the white pieces, and then go to the other side to play the black pieces. he would play against himself. everyday of his life. he would not talk about girls, no saturday nights for him, no taxes, just pure chess. you talk to him, he would get his pocketchess, like you don't exist. he's got his own world, outside of that, everybody's against him. whatever syndrome he had, i like him. but i'm not anti-jewish nor anti-american, nor anti-russian. fischer's got sick, dude. you can't allow yourself to go low his level of sanity. there's a boy inside every man, see the boy in the old fischer. the boy who just wanted to play chess, and be the very best in the entire planet. a boy seeking the love and guidance of his father. fischer never got the chance to call anyone dad when he grew up. and he never had a chance to be even called a dad himself. it got it into his head, being the cold war hero. he was primadona, and everybody else had to submit to his demands. but like the rest of us, fischer gets hungry, he sleeps, he eats like us, he farts like us.

Truer words have not been spoken. About as eloquent as you can put Fischer.

Fischer had his views, so do I. None of what I said make sense, because when I wrote that quote I was high in the lighter side of notes. Could have been the failure of chatting online, to embed the humor within, the real emotions of the writer. I was having a great time, laughing out loud, but in my later passages, I was quite serious, as I thought I might had offended some Fischer fans.

I should've written 'hmp.' with 'hmp.' - but I didn't, so as not to be confused with a crazy loon.

EternalChess

Oct 21, 2009

0

#39

polydiatonic wrote:

I came in to chess a couple of years before the Fischer vs Spassky match in 1972. My mom was a pretty strong player as a child, having grown up in Easter Europe and attracting the attention of the chess trainers in her area. As a young boy (I was 11 when I played in my first tournament) I was totally fascinated by Fischer and Fischermania. I studied "Bobby Fischer Teaches Chess" and later got (and still have) a copy of his "60 memorable games". So here's my dilemma: I'm completely appalled by Fischers anti-jewish and anti-american rantings, but I still find myself drawn, like moth to flame, to him. And part of me hates myself for it.

Does anyone else have mixed feelings about being proud that Fischer was "one of us" but on the other hand turned out to be an absolute embarresment as a human being? Just curious.

Said an American..

No offense but i seem to see only Americans hate him.

jpd303

Oct 21, 2009

0

#40

i can separate talent from personality. Mike Tyson, Mike Jackson, Bobby Fischer, Elvis, Karl Marx, Robert Downey Jr., Keith Richards, Sigmund Freud, Freidrich Neitzche, amongst others, have all enriched our lives in some fashion and theyve all been twisted in some way too. almost everyone has demons even people with great talents. i love bobby for his chess, and the great things he did for american chess culture. I try to leave my thoughts of Bobby there. his jew bashing american hating rants dont fit into my idealistic view of Bobby so i try to ignor them as best i can. im not saying that these great people shoulndt be held accountable for drug abuse, self-destructive behaviors, anti-whateverisms or whatever their demon was, but we can still appreciate the good things theyve done for us. and i thought fischer had a wife and child, from the philipines