Fischer: mentally disturbed or just mean spirited jerk?

goldendog: I can't recall any negative comments about Fischer from Filipino chess fans. Note that I said that the Filipinos liked HIM despite what he said--you invented that I said that they liked WHAT HE SAID.

To say that we liked HIM 'despite' what he said - this is the juncture of our misunderstanding because you now replied with : they allowed and encouraged everything - now contrary to the 'despite' it seems that it becomes 'inspite'. It implies that since we liked fischer we also liked the things he said by 'encouraging him'.

To 'encourage' doesn't fit the whole scenario. Bobby is free to say whatever he wanted on that radio station, in that interview the DJ had calm down fischer because RJF was really raving. I heard the whole interview, I was following the events on TV and radio.

And the equation is not my creation, it's a simple clarification giving you opportunity to express yourself further so we can attain level ground because I may not be as intelligent as you.

There is no other way to put it fairly, other than Fischer was allowed and encouraged to vent himself on his favorite topics, as he did, repeatedly, and so it was known what to expect from him and still he was invited on.

There were several interviews, not just one, and I have them all.

I don't say that the Filipinos "liked the things he said," just that they weren't bothered by his rants enough to do other than facilitate his saying them on the air.

Now, had Fischer been saying Filipino instead of Jew, or Philipines instead of USA, I suspect he would not have been enjoying such free speech for so long. That's the difference between not caring and caring.

 Exactly !  If this were the case those he did attack would be silent now !  If his attack were directed at " rednecks" and Mormons , for example, it wouldnt be such a big deal !  Free speech is supposed to mean something to Americans, whether they agree/like that speech or not.

If the protection of the First Amendment is to have any meaning at all, then it must protect speech that some will find offensive or disrespectful. Speech everybody agrees with doesn't need any protection.

Alright, alright I heard ya.  It's much clearer now. In the case of your last paragraph I suppose we Filipinos would just be onions for a time and then continue to like Bobby Fischer. 

You know we had the The Beatles perform here in the Philippines, the Filipinos loved them.  The Royal Family invited them for dinner (part of courtesy call), the The Beatles did not arrive, the First Family were furious. And there were interviews with the The Beatles saying that Filipinos live in bamboo houses and were ugly like monkeys. You know they can say whatever they want, but we Filipinos definitely still love their music.

If only the The Beatles responded to the First Family like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzGprBGKAso

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXyj50oeerQ

they would not have added to their tarnished legacy of being anti-Christs.

Gokukid

"Dude I know how high the emotions were during that time, but fischer's sentiments on the US and the jews did not culminate from nowhere."

So where do you say they come from? Are you finding an excuse for his anti-American and anti-Jew comments apart from a mental defect?

....I repeat this as you did not answer it the first time.

We even allow neo-Nazis to march in demonstrations.

We feel we are better off as a nation for allowing even this to happen. I think we are, so long as we are strong at our core with our positive values. I hope we can stay strong in the good ways.

I am not finding an excuse for his anti-US and anti-Jew comments apart from a mental defect. Fischer had his reasons, it may sound crazy for us but like all of us chatting in forums like this not all are lawyers. Fischer may not have understood what a tax was and why he should have paid his taxes.

Then he talked about US democracy and their dealings with the Middle East. He would talk about US and jews conspiring against him, not to mention the Kremlin. There came a time he felt there were people going after his life, or making money out of him. Jews like Dick Schaap and Piatogorsky to name some whom he declared as biased and snakes.

In some interviews Fischer appear to side with the Arabs, and for a person who deliberately lived in reclusion for 20 years it would be difficult to assess how he came up to his views about Arabs, and God, and even aliens.

So apart from his mental defects his hatred on the US government would most probably stem from the issue of tax evasion. Further than that, if it had to be on a personal and physical state, I believe Fischer became so introvert and with high inferiority complex because he knew he was a Jew, and that he had problems with the way he walks. (I don't know if his childhood playmates ridiculed him from his walking and led Fischer to love chess because he just had to stay at home and have fun with his sister or by himself, and still find gratifications for not just enjoying chess but also improving there on.)

Okay thanks for the reply.

His "alliance" with the Arabs is likely no more complicated than "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."

You mentioned Piatigorsky. Apart from the Jew aspect of the affair as Fischer was seeing it, I'm on his side. Before the match with Reshevsky rules were drawn up and he was fully abiding by them. The change of schedule was "unlawful" and based on the whim of the wealthy sponsor. Many would give in, for the greater good of the match or US chess...whatever. That Fischer stuck by his guns was okay by me.

Fischer did get support this way at the time but not as much as he deserved in this case.

I think that video says it all.  Thanks for posting, polydiatonic.

for all you did and said:  Thanks Bobby Fischer for all the wondrous chess games you gave the world to enjoy.

May you Rest In Peace now, for eternity.

let us remember the good chess he gave us and not pass judgement on the rest he said that many find objectionable.   

  For: let he who has not sinned, cast the first stone.

Goku, I wasn't being sarcastic, this honestly sums it up better than anyone I've heard.

Cunc...you're completely missing the point of this thread. At first I thought you were being funny and trying to encourage a civil discourse here.  This has definately been one of the sanest and civil threads I've ever seen regarding RJF.  Now, I'm realizing you seem to be just interested in controlling/manipulating how people talk about this issue and as the OP I think you're no longer contributing in any meaningful sort of way.

to be clear, the underlying question is: Do you think Fischer was mentally ill or just a bitter angry person?  And if you're still fascinated not just his chess, but him as a person, how do you feel about that? 

No no no, that's not it, I did not take it as sarcasm on your part, it's just that I realized that some people who would later read this forum will read them as black and white and mistaken my real emotions when I wrote that, hehe. Oh well, hehe, I guess I should put on more emoticons next time.

Now about that tax evasion by Fischer as one of the root causes of his anti-USism - (This is just my observation) - Bobby Fischer loved chess, when he decided to drop out of high school he and his mother knew this was a very serious decision to make because it would had risked Bobby's future.  Fischer would be better off finding a job had he not become successful in his chess career - what if he didn't become the world's champion. Someday, when he'd turned 18, Bobby would had to be on his own, without a chess career to support himself and pay the bills - soon Bobby might had realized it was not a good idea to be without diploma.

This would put a lot of pressure on Bobby, and reality bites, he soon found out that the way to success in chess was not a walk in the park when the Soviet Chess Machine was stopping him from getting to the top. There was an instance when he said that in a tournament he would hear the russian grandmasters talk about the moves to play against him, you know, chess was supposed to be played one-on-one but fischer seemed to play them all at once. And according to him these russians would play easily against each other to make sure they would land the best spots. And to make matters worse, Mikhail Tal (of Riga Latvia), was around to stop him personally from going on further in a Candidates Match.

So when finally Fischer had his chance once again for the world title by sweeping his last Candidates Match with Bent Larsen, Mark Taimanov, and Tigran Petrosian (thanks to Pal Benko for giving his spot to Fischer), Bobby Fischer would then start demanding for higher purse prizes. Chess must had to be treated with other high paying sports.

Prior to the world championship, Boris Spassky scored 4-0 on their previous encounters. Fischer trusts his chess skills but this 4-0 trashing must have put on some bugs on fischer's confidence.  Had he lost the match, at least he would had taken home some more bucks for a come back the following years.

Fischer then made demands, and some silly demands, like, the chef must be on duty 24 hours, among others. For the chess part, he wanted to isolate Spassky from the machine, he wanted to have Spassky play it out right in his own battlefield - a quiet nutshell where there's only two of them fighting for the world championship.

Russians chess grandmasters had their financial support from their federation, Fischer had none. He would depend on other sources, even charities from tv stations. When Fischer captured the WCC title he earned a big sum of money, which he believed was rightfully his own. And now the tax had to grip a claw on his accounts.

To avoid getting arrested for tax evasion Fischer became a fugitive then. He had difficulty setting foot on US soil once again. Later, when his mother died, Bobby would blame the US for his inability to come to his mother's funeral.

To be denied to grieve for the loss of a beloved family member was a big slap on Bobby Fischer. I believe that when 911 tragedy happened the first thing Fischer did was vent his frustrations and hatred on, unfortunately, Philippine radio station.

Fischer's score with Spassky before 1972 was 1-4 , not 0-4. They had met 5 times with Spassky winning 3 and drawing the other 2 .

I lot of peoples here are forgetting something, something happen to Fischer since 72  is fear, fear that right (imo) he has fear build-up inside him, fear of losing to Karpov in 75. You see Fischer was perfect, he was the best, beat the mighty Russians, so he quit while ahead (without showing it though). Fear and Perfectism what may have stared all this.

really ? what made you say that ?

Fischer...crazy?  eccentric? difficult to listen to?  irritating?  YES

Fischer... most amazing chess career?  inspirational chess player? a mystery? YES

I have no bad feelings toward him.  He obviously had some problems and he ran off at the mouth about it.  Was he angry at the US?  Yes.  Should he have been?  Well, they made him a criminal for playing the return chess match that the entire world wanted to see.  He gave up his home country to play that match...for chess.

His contributions to the beauty that is chess far outweigh his rantings and ravings outside of chess.  I have to say that he is one of my chess heroes...no matter what happened outside of the 64 square universe.

It's an entirely romantic notion that Fischer played Spassky in '92 for the love of chess. It was for money. Had it been for chess he would have continued playing.

My theory on why Fischer left is echoed by GM Pal Benko. Benko said that fear was the reason Fischer left chess but not fear of losing. He said Fischer constantly feared the Russians would try to harm or kill him and so he avoided that psychological hell by just dropping out of chess and became a full-time recluse.

Fischer... per the Russian Chess World, he's a genius.