Is it possible to become a very strong player without reading books?

What are these concepts that can be only be understood by reading? And why can't they be read on a webpage?

You could become a very strong player by joining a Gym and working out daily.

You would have muscles to move the pieces without reading a book. Sorry I couldn't resist.

Ah, "web page"...fair enough.

Now, I understand your "semantics" argument.  Yeah, you were right, I was, unwittingly, arguing semantics.

That wasn't even my main point. Everyone learns differently, perhaps some may not take well to having something explained to them, but impossible for anyone to learn the same concepts without reading them?

goldendog wrote:

Fine claimed to have reached master strength without benefit of reading a chess book.

Bronsteinitz : the guy was a university professor (a doctor in psychology) and he enjoyed writing chess books like MCO....

One always thinks " if i just find the correct chess line..short cut... the move creating a win.... use a search engine or read a masters book, i can duplicate those moves.    YOU CAN"T. playing a set line w/ a g.m will get u so far before his experience will prevail. Lesser rated players win or lose working out each position----u want a higher rating ? Play chess ,play chess and play chess w/ high rated players. You will get better because loosing is painful !!

- my opinion would be maybe - but nothing in the intellectual world beats studying learning and gaining more knowledge

- however - as an alternate to books you have computer chess instruction

- and I would guess if you devoted 8 eight hours a day to memorizing computer chess instruction you would definitely become a stronger player - how much stronger - well I think that depends on whether or not you have a mind for chess like the great players

- however - if you took that same eight hours and applied it in a college or university well then in two or four years you would have a diploma or degree

- if you studied chess 24/7 for 2 or 4 years what would you get ?

I think Pfren is right. It is extremely unlikely that someone gets to 2000+ without having read a book. At some point a person being so interested in chess that he/she  keeps on studying and practicing would open a book on the matter. Tutors would not be able to dedicate the necessary time to compensate for the simple method of a book.

Yes, nowadays you get lots of material on the internet. But I feel that is always bits and pieces. If you are really serious about the matter, maybe you want it in the structured form of a book?

So in essence, I would say becoming a 2000+ player without reading books may  not be impossible, but extremely unlikely to happen in real life.

Mir Sultan Khan was illiterate, yet he was the British champion at least twice. So, yes, it is possible.

How many books did Bobby Fisher read when he was kicking ass at 12 years old?

Only one, Pandolfini's Traps and Zaps.

I think it is very possible but mainly through a technicality.  Take knowing where to place one's King when defending the bad side of a Q+P vs. Q ending.  In some positions, this knowledge may not be so easy to figure out.  However, besides looking it up in a book, there are dvds without this information.  And using a chess engine where there is a Nalimov database which is kind of a book being used by the engine which the player can use to figure it out is really the same thing.  He would have to get the knowledge somehow.  Figuring it out totally by his own brain or while playing rather than getting it through a printed source, computer source, or human source I think is not so likely depending on the particular knowledge item.

Now another question is what works best for a particular player trying to improve-which is a very individual thing imo.

Lol! I don't know when he studied, but I thought he had access to John Collins' library which was pretty large.  There were also all the Russian publications he bought at a Russian bookstore, (Viktor Kamkin maybe?), which I think is part of the reason he was being watched by the FBI.

maybe you guys should take this question more realistically: Do you believe that someone who is 2000+ has never  read a book?

Somehow, almost everything is imagineable. But would you believe a guy who told you so?

You miss the point of Pfren's comment. He doesn't say it is unlikely. He said it is impossible even in theory.

I agree that as a practical matter there is no reason to suspect someone would get to 2000+ rating without having read a few chess books. Nor is it likely that such a person would have a coach who would not recommend a few texts along the way. 

However, the claim being made is not about what is likely or not, but about what is possible or not. In contrast to Pfren, I'm arguing that it is concievable that in theory a high-end trainer could work wtih a person on a daily basis for years on end and they could become a highly rated player. Of course, my caveat to that is that I do not believe this would ever happen in actuality precisely for the reasons you state.  

At 12 years old?

He wasn't being watched at that age, but his mother was. 

My point is that he was kicking ass at 12 with little book learning so it had to come from raw instinct.

Wow! This is like saying Can i get a degree without studying. 

I didn't say he never studied later clown.