I was referring to Ruy Lopez in the previous comment
Who is the greatest chess player of all time ?? Bobby Fischer ??
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Nov 6, 2016
0
#863
SmyslovFan wrote:
The myth of the rugged individual is just that, a myth.
yea..in your opinion. You are not going to tell us that fischer had the same support the soviet champions did..lol
Nov 6, 2016
0
#864
Im confused.
Are you saying Bronstein wasnt a theorist?
He brought the King's Indian to the stage, he has a book on the King's Indian and there is even a PRETTY interesting exchange sac line that bears his name in the Saemisch, he also supposedly contributed to the King's Gambit, a lot.
Im sure Im missing many other ways in which he contributed to theory, but those are just a few.
Ruy Lopez, we dont know much about him, as I said, there is not a lot of info, so I dont think judging him is possible.
"Kasparov had the help of the entire Russian chess machine, coaches, nutrition, financial support, huge library, computers"
So that's why he had such an unfair advantage against Karpov :-)
luciferprinceofevil wrote:
Kasparov had the help of the entire Russian chess machine. coaches, nutrition, financial support, huge library, computers.
Fischer did it all on his own. nuff said. the most talented chess player of all time was bobby Fischer.
Fischer was more talented, but Kasparov worked harder for more years. Hard work is also paying off.
"Fischer was more talented, but Kasparov worked harder"
Such things are difficult to measure, when Botvinnik first saw Kasparov age 10 he stated that he was a genius, and Botvinnik never praised anyone :-) Fischer worked on chess all the time while Kasparov had football, girlfriends, was quite active with friends and studies, etc.
Je pense que Fischer est mieux que Karpov comme il est vif dans ses mouvements et calcule les mouvements ahade.
fabelhaft wrote:
"Fischer was more talented, but Kasparov worked harder"
Such things are difficult to measure, when Botvinnik first saw Kasparov age 10 he stated that he was a genius, and Botvinnik never praised anyone :-) Fischer worked on chess all the time while Kasparov had football, girlfriends, was quite active with friends and studies, etc.
Football is good for chess. Magnus too is a good footballplayer, and the physical strenght is a useful strenght to have in chess.
Anyway, maybe I was wrong describing Fisher as more talented than Kasparov.
Nov 7, 2016
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#870
fabelhaft wrote:
"Fischer was more talented, but Kasparov worked harder"
Such things are difficult to measure, when Botvinnik first saw Kasparov age 10 he stated that he was a genius, and Botvinnik never praised anyone :-) Fischer worked on chess all the time while Kasparov had football, girlfriends, was quite active with friends and studies, etc.
Oh yeah, haven't you read countless old tales from Moscow about the affable, glamorous, flashy young Kasparov who was both a renaissance man and the soul of every party...
At the same time it can be argued Fischer did it all by himself (Lombardy and Nigro were good teachers, but they were no match for the soviet chess machine). Kasparov had coaching at the highest level from an early age, was always surrounded by seconds, benefited from the more advanced chess theory (thanks in no small part to Fischer), benefited from computer analysis and training (from mid 90's onwards).
Look, all these arguments are behind the point...
Nov 7, 2016
0
#871
I think raw talent is not what made Fischer stand out. One could argue that Capa or Reshevsky or Anand were not less talented. Fischer stands out as one of the greatest because the main obstacle between him and the World Championship title was the mighty Soviet chess empire. Fischer managed to convincingly wrest the title from them (remember, in every adjourned game Fischer was competing against five or ten Soviet GMs), and that alone I find an incredible feat. Of course Fischer is forever indebted to Spasski, who was a gentleman and allowed Fischer to prove he was the strongest player on the planet in 1972.
usernaym wrote:
... Of course Fischer is forever indebted to Spasski, who was a gentleman and allowed Fischer to prove he was the strongest player on the planet in 1972.
This should be highlighted.
along with that Bobby was a legend, particularly for young guys full of energy and spite,
we must not forget that Ficher did not have right to participate in WCH cycle 1972. only after one guy quit, thik Benke, FIDE granted Fischer with possibility to play this cycle with no any right by competition regulations,and Spassky could win the title easily but he was a gentelman, and gave Fischer a chance....
In 1975. cycle Fischer was not gentleman, he did not gave chance to Karpov to fight for title, his behaviour was at least strange, considering that all the conditions are the same for both the players...not matter how many wins or draws or tv cameras or who knows what....but Fischer got that chance by many peoples favours and this is a big thing.
also he made huge damage to the Karpov, since this one was marked for years as one who become champion without fight, but he proved in 70 and 80s that he was great player, and also Karpov lost big ammount of money because match was not played....
his results were great but he was far from great man.
Nov 7, 2016
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#873
ChessBooster wrote:
usernaym wrote:
... Of course Fischer is forever indebted to Spasski, who was a gentleman and allowed Fischer to prove he was the strongest player on the planet in 1972.
This should be highlighted.
along with that Bobby was a legend, particularly for young guys full of energy and spite,
we must not forget that Ficher did not have right to participate in WCH cycle 1972. only after one guy quit, thik Benke, FIDE granted Fischer with possibility to play this cycle with no any right by competition regulations,and Spassky could win the title easily but he was a gentelman, and gave Fischer a chance....
In 1975. cycle Fischer was not gentleman, he did not gave chance to Karpov to fight for title, his behaviour was at least strange, considering that all the conditions are the same for both the players...not matter how many wins or draws or tv cameras or who knows what....but Fischer got that chance by many peoples favours and this is a big thing.
also he made huge damage to the Karpov, since this one was marked for years as one who become champion without fight, but he proved in 70 and 80s that he was great player, and also Karpov lost big ammount of money because match was not played....
his results were great but he was far from great man.
Good points. Even though I hugely admire Fischer, I am also willing to concede that his decision not to defend his title was an equally huge disappointment. Considering that President Marcos of the Philippines was offering something like 5million $(in 1975!) for the final to be held in Manila, we can only speculate about what went on in Fischer's mind that made him adopt such a stubborn, negative attitude during negotiations about the match. I guess we will never know with absolute certainty whether Fischer had in fact long before made up his mind to retire as a "myth" rather than risk losing the title, or, he was so monomaniacal and obsessed with "principles", that he felt he should get 100% of his demands granted or nothing.
maybe Fischer tought that he would be champ for next 200 years of what? instead taking all good benefits from his glory, buying a boat and good car, find some nice lady, ejoing all round the globe, playing, writing the books..., he got completely lost cursing his own homeland and people with no any single reason.
but in 1992. he took milions of USD from match in YU, but this money had dirty origin, sponsoured by "Jezda the Boss", a proven criminal, who a year ago cheated his own almost 20 thousand investors and depositors for millions through his private bank, and this was not problem for Bobby's great morale..
usernaym wrote:
Good points. Even though I hugely admire Fischer, I am also willing to concede that his decision not to defend his title was an equally huge disappointment. Considering that President Marcos of the Philippines was offering something like 5million $(in 1975!) for the final to be held in Manila, we can only speculate about what went on in Fischer's mind that made him adopt such a stubborn, negative attitude during negotiations about the match. I guess we will never know with absolute certainty whether Fischer had in fact long before made up his mind to retire as a "myth" rather than risk losing the title, or, he was so monomaniacal and obsessed with "principles", that he felt he should get 100% of his demands granted or nothing.
Probably a combination of both. He wanted to retire as World Champion and he was also a spoiled brat who thought he should get his way on everything. Also, a tad crazy. lol
ChessBooster wrote:
maybe Fischer tought that he would be champ for next 200 years of what? instead taking all good benefits from his glory, buying a boat and good car, find some nice lady, ejoing all round the globe, playing, writing the books..., he got completely lost cursing his own homeland and people with no any single reason.
but in 1992. he took milions of USD from match in YU, but this money had dirty origin, sponsoured by "Jezda the Boss", a proven criminal, who a year ago cheated his own almost 20 thousand investors and depositors for millions through his private bank, and this was not problem for Bobby's great morale..
I think you're reading too much into that. Like many former champions (of boxing, American football, basketball, Olympics, etc), he ran out of money at a certain point and had to make one last comeback, in order to finance his retirement. He did it because he needed the money. He then turned on the US Government, because they charged him with receiving the prize fund from a country that had sanctions placed on it (Yugoslavia).
Fischer is a puppet of Spassky
I think it change with time.
"3rd best tournament player"
Fischer didn't win more than a few international tournaments so difficult to rank that in comparison to what Kasparov, Karpov, Lasker, Carlsen etc accomplished.
Nov 12, 2016
0
#880
This article is interesting:
http://www.businessinsider.com/magnus-carlsen-better-than-anyone-in-history-2016-11?IR=T
I don't really know bro. Like some would say RJF would be the greatest if it wasn't for this or that.
Then the same could be said for Bronstein.
We all don't really know why they chose to do what they did.
It's a mindtrip, what could've been don't you agree?